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View Full Version : Why is Grohk considered to be sooooooooooooooooooooooooo bad?



EnsignTuna
11-12-2016, 06:54 PM
The title says it all, with the emphasis on "so" if you didn't catch it.

EvieIV
11-12-2016, 07:03 PM
bad escape, too risky, not too much damage, rmb is lacking and his totem is easily destroyed

Tsuraika
11-12-2016, 07:53 PM
I don't consider him so bad, he's actually really strong if you know how to play him well.

PRVN
11-12-2016, 09:37 PM
What exactly does Grohk do that is better than Ying, Grover, Mal'Damba, or Pip? His damage is alright, but I'd say Ying can do better. His healing is actually pretty subpar with compared to Grover and Ying. He has almost no mobility and his totem is an easy target for removal.

And if you're gonna say that his healing range is good, I'd say Ying's is better, Grover's is more reliable, and Mal'Damba's can't be destroyed.

OBADIAh
11-12-2016, 11:24 PM
I've played him 3 times with all diamond players and got top play every time and 40000-70000 healing which is pretty okay. hes really fun and not to hard to learn i just think people focus to much on attack with him then healing. Same with pip.

Eurorial
11-12-2016, 11:59 PM
A friend of mine played Grohk back in closed beta (he doesn't play anymore) and his Shock Pulse used to chain between targets in range, also making his autoattack chain between targets hit by Shock Pulse. Problem was, the pulse could chain to another target and then back to the first, essentially doubling his DPS on the first target. This resulted in insane DPS rivaling most flankers, and was probably unintended behavior (then again, with HiRez, "intended behavior" has no clear definition given the obscurity of the patch notes and typos in skill descriptions).

I think as of now Grohk is meant to be an alt-support but does it ineffectively. His weapon may be hitscan, but has only average DPS that doesn't compensate for weaker CC (compared to Pip) and weaker healing (compared to Ying/Grover). The prevalence of Cauterize doesn't help either, and Bulldozer can screw his healing up too (while also tearing apart Barik and Ying, if they're also on his team). Offense is supposed to be his niche compared to the other support champs, and yet he falls short at being able to do that.

A straight up DPS increase to his staff won't promote smart play and will only encourage players to think he's a flanker or DPS pick. Modifying his other skills to improve his ability to support the team in an offensive manner, however, seems better:

- Lightning Staff: Maybe a range or capacity buff.

- Shock Pulse: Very underwhelming, has less slow (30% vs 50%) over a shorter duration (2 sec vs 2.5 sec) and is harder to use than Pip's Explosive Flask. It could possibly boost Grohk's damage for a short duration (compared to Pip's bonus damage for a single shot after using Explosive Flask) or, instead of a slow, could apply an increased damage taken debuff on the enemies it strikes (similar to Drogoz's Fire Spit, except with lower magnitude).

- Healing Totem: Main reason you're playing Grohk, and its shortcomings are the main reasons he sucks. Boost its healing per second to around 400/sec to be more competitive with the other supports. Give it some kind of area denial effect, such as slowing enemies or reducing enemy healing in its AoE. These effects could be implemented in cards as well, seeing as one of his cards merely increases the healing per second and feels redundant. Also, why does it get placed at his location rather than where the crosshairs are? Being able to deploy healing from a range is something every support except Grover can do and is essential to keeping frontliners topped off on HP.

- Ghost Walk: Weak escape skill, considering it's a "ghost" walk it could put Grohk into stealth instead of making him invincible, and then the base duration and movement speed could both be increased to maintain a good balance while making it more effective as an escape or engage skill. As of now, it feels like it does nothing.

- Tempest: Could probably mention how it reduces enemy movement speed on hit and increases ally movement speed when healed by the skill. The in-game skill description doesn't mention that I think. The actual skill itself is fine and can apply good pressure on an objective when paired with proper team support.

Banfilidh
11-13-2016, 01:30 AM
Shock pulse is fine, IMO. It can hit enemies over a much broader area than Explosive Flask. Buffing could make it too strong.

I'd love to have totem deployable at range.

As for ghost walk, wish we could replace it with a lightning-style teleport that does damage or has CC.

Eclair
11-13-2016, 04:53 AM
I don't have opinion about Grohk's strength, but there's my problem - he seems unattractive even for me. Not from the visual side tho, I don't care about his look. But his kit? There is no reason at all for me to pick him. A "deployable" healer? Ying. Damage focused support? Pip does it better while having tons of CC. There's nothing special about Grohk. There is always someone who can do things better than him.

I would like to see Grohk reworked. He's kinda old and if not underpowered then just really, really dull.
His totem is really meh, Ying's illusions are far better with shorter CD. They can't heal AoE tho, but still. His movement ability is terrible. LMB and RMB seems... well, fine but nothing special. Only one viable thing about Grohk is his ultimate.

And remember, this while post is not about Grohk being underpowered. I don't have enough experience with him to make such claims. He just doesn't seem appealing as a support even for someone who's maining supports for few years in various games.

MasterTeisel
11-13-2016, 08:59 AM
His totem's healing has really short reach, is difficult to perceive for allies and gets destroyed easily even by random AoE attacks. Then, his ultimante turns him into a mobile target, the damage output is insignificant, as well as the healing.

He was really powerful when he could chain his lightning between enemies, but with currect TTK that ability would be totally broken.

Banfilidh
11-13-2016, 10:35 AM
His primary and secondary fire at my favorite part of his kit.

Ducktor
11-13-2016, 10:46 AM
Well his healing rain card is 10x more effective than intended which makes his hps the highest in the game so there is that.

Banfilidh
11-13-2016, 12:45 PM
Well his healing rain card is 10x more effective than intended which makes his hps the highest in the game so there is that.

It's bugged? That explains a lot. It doesn't look that exciting on paper, but people keep saying how great it is.

tiagorpg
11-13-2016, 02:45 PM
i like the ghost walk, he can take no damage from bomb king and skye ultimates, i just wish he could deploy the ward in ghost form, so he could ghost walk closer to the tank deploy a ward and hide

Decelerator
11-15-2016, 01:43 AM
Used to main grohk back in the closed beta when grohk still had the dome shield. It's soo good for taking objectives. His ult? It's a 2 hit kill. He used to be a tank instead of a support.

Right now, he's no longer tanky, not enough damage, the totem could easily be destroyed in 2-3 hits, ghost walk doesn't speed you up (no escape), and the ult cannot kill anyone.

Raviollius
11-15-2016, 07:52 AM
What exactly does Grohk do that is better than Ying, Grover, Mal'Damba, or Pip? His damage is alright, but I'd say Ying can do better. His healing is actually pretty subpar with compared to Grover and Ying. He has almost no mobility and his totem is an easy target for removal.
His damage is better than Ying's - 850 DPS that doesn't get fucked if you miss the enemy for 0.2 seconds(not to mention it's better sustained since her reload is real bad), being actually better than all the supports save a really opportunistic/unmolested Grover. You have a point on his mobility, which is why the increased ghostwalk duration and extra movespeed on ghostwalk are so needed on him.

Yes, his totem is a problem, because it needs to be babysat. It has the best heal save Grover's ult though, and because of that I'd pick a Grohk over an Ying in a dual frontliner setup every day of the week. I need to check if his % healing card is affected by cauterize...

All in all, the reason people believes he sucks so hard is because he has a slightly-less shitty ult than Ying, and yet people think they are supposed to become Frontliners for the duration, quickly dying. That, and sucking at totem placement.

ReaIPandemonium
11-16-2016, 05:23 AM
Grover is perhaps not as intuitive as other characters, since he's kind of a weird all-rounder. People think the totem sucks even though it has a powerful heal (very powerful with the Healing Rain card;) downsides of the heal is that people ignore it and it can be popped quickly by enemies when exposed. His offensive capability is solid, and Ghost Walk can be turned into an incredibly frustrating ability for enemies when modded for with cards.

His ultimate leaves him too exposed, though. When most characters use their ult, you scramble for cover or reposition to fight elsewhere; when Grohk ults it paints a target on him for every nearby enemy with hardly any consideration for their positioning or safety. As it stands now his ult is only good for chasing down kills against fleeing low-health enemies or as a clutch heal when combined with his totem while supporting teammates on the objective. The slow/speedup is also cool but the lack of game-turning ability and degree of personal safety really makes Grohk's ult feel like it doesn't deserve its cooldown. Would be cool if it healed him during its effect and affected all enemies/allies in its short range instead of just two.

Strategics999
07-07-2017, 06:45 PM
What exactly does Grohk do that is better than Ying, Grover, Mal'Damba, or Pip? His damage is alright, but I'd say Ying can do better. His healing is actually pretty subpar with compared to Grover and Ying. He has almost no mobility and his totem is an easy target for removal.

And if you're gonna say that his healing range is good, I'd say Ying's is better, Grover's is more reliable, and Mal'Damba's can't be destroyed.

Well you can protect the totem while it heals you for all of 6 seconds, you can self heal with it, and you can at least get the quick combat heals you need in before the totem dies. It's also a more than decent post-combat heal in case of flanks. His escape is better than most people realize, being INVINCIBLE for long enough to turn the corner and heal up after slowing your foe. That's probably how the two abilities were meant to be used, in tandem. His mobility is probably the same if not slightly worse than Grover and Mal'Damba and Ying's mirages CAN be destroyed while they're healing. Even if all that isn't true, plenty of characters in other games can't stand up to others purely in stat totals, but can use them in tandem better than many other characters, yet people don't try to do so with Grohk.

WarMongger
07-08-2017, 02:19 AM
his RMB is his ticket on op dmg if you know haw to use his skill on a right time he can bounce his bolt like a crazy hot potato