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View Full Version : buff/fix Ying



Somniari
11-09-2016, 11:37 AM
Because spamming illusions to heal is pretty much the only thing she can do.

1. Her escape skill (dimensional link) is absolutely horrible, when you use shatter all of your illusions go into the thick of enemies which means that if you use dimensional link you'll teleport right there, right into that that mess full of enemies and get rekt instantly. She basically has no escape skill.
2. Even when i give her squadron IV card which gives all illusions 400 additional hp it's not enough, they get destroyed way too easily rarely making it to anyone.
And even if they do, 500 damage is nothing.
Meanwhile if you use illusions for damage you can't do your job as a healer.
Plus players can easily tell where your real body is, the illusions need additional animation that mimics your own movements... at the very least.
And illusions need to be taught to follow you closely as well not just stand there.
Or at least give Ying a skill that can command illusions to follow you.
3. Illusory mirror is hard to use because it's basically a laser that can only shoot straight, it feels super awkward and a total pain to aim it.
And on top of it all has super short range.

I think she is rather poorly designed and could use a rework.
Even her ultimate sucks compared to Grovers.
Or perhaps it's just that grover has way too op ultimate, 5 seconds of godhood for you and your team is a lot.

Eclair
11-09-2016, 01:31 PM
er escape skill (dimensional link) is absolutely horrible [...]

If you don't know how to properly use it, then yes - it is horrible skill.
If you aren't clever enough to remember when you left your illusions, then pick other champ. But honestly, don't lower skill gap for Ying because we need at least one hard to play healer. And she's not really that hard. Dimensional link is fine because you can play with your enemy in really smart way - now I'm here, not I'm not. Great way to avoid for example Bomb King's ultimate.


2. Even when i give her squadron IV card which gives all illusions 400 additional hp it's not enough, they get destroyed way too easily rarely making it to anyone.
And even if they do, 500 damage is nothing.
Meanwhile if you use illusions for damage you can't do your job as a healer.
Plus players can easily tell where your real body is, the illusions need additional animation that mimics your own movements... at the very least.
And illusions need to be taught to follow you closely as well not just stand there.
Or at least give Ying a skill that can command illusions to follow you.

Low sustain of those illusions forces you to put them in smart spots when they wouldn't get shot immediately, but close enough to heal your teammates. It's called a balance. And besides that, with right deck Q's CD is about 5 seconds long. Really short one for a deployable, but it's justified by nature of her kit.

And besides that, her illusions aren't there to fool enemy team into thinking that's really you. What made you think that way?


3. Illusory mirror is hard to use because it's basically a laser that can only shoot straight, it feels super awkward and a total pain to aim it.
And on top of it all has super short range.

Well, I would dare to say that's an easiest to land from all those mid-range regular attacks. That's funny because I consider my aiming to be really, really bad.


Even her ultimate sucks compared to Grovers.

Because it's global. Grover can't heal person on the other side of the map. Ying can and it's pretty useful.

For me it sounds like you want to play as her, but she doesn't suit your playstyle so chose to make a post about it instead of, well, picking another champion? She's not weak. Actually, she's pretty strong due to nature of this game's HUD.

ThatOthell159
11-09-2016, 03:14 PM
Ying doesn't need a buff, she was picked in >80% of all gauntlets and tournaments.

The stats don't lie and HiRez knows that.

Mjolnir1337
11-09-2016, 03:15 PM
Because spamming illusions to heal is pretty much the only thing she can do.

1. Her escape skill (dimensional link) is absolutely horrible, when you use shatter all of your illusions go into the thick of enemies which means that if you use dimensional link you'll teleport right there, right into that that mess full of enemies and get rekt instantly. She basically has no escape skill.
2. Even when i give her squadron IV card which gives all illusions 400 additional hp it's not enough, they get destroyed way too easily rarely making it to anyone.
And even if they do, 500 damage is nothing.
Meanwhile if you use illusions for damage you can't do your job as a healer.
Plus players can easily tell where your real body is, the illusions need additional animation that mimics your own movements... at the very least.
And illusions need to be taught to follow you closely as well not just stand there.
Or at least give Ying a skill that can command illusions to follow you.
3. Illusory mirror is hard to use because it's basically a laser that can only shoot straight, it feels super awkward and a total pain to aim it.
And on top of it all has super short range.

I think she is rather poorly designed and could use a rework.
Even her ultimate sucks compared to Grovers.
Or perhaps it's just that grover has way too op ultimate, 5 seconds of godhood for you and your team is a lot.

1) Dimensional link isnt bad, its not "amazing" but if used smart it can save your butt, just requires a little skill and not total mindless "Q" spamming (which DOES work 90% of the time)
2) Considering the CD on Illusion is only like 4-5 seconds, I think its fine. Not to mention you grab the card that reduces CD when destroyed and the one where you can use Dimensional link to spawn an illusion and IMO her illusions have WAY too much uptime as it is... I think they are fine as is, and frankly Illusion needs to be an 8 sec CD to make Ying more balanced.

3)This is just crap man, for being an amazing healer, she can very easily do ALOT of damage if you have a little bit of aim skill. Im VERY glad there are no headshot bonuses for her, and all it requires is a little aim skill.


Honestly Ying ISNT that hard to play "well". She might be harder to master, since it requires learning to micromanage your illusions, but out of all the healers, she might be the best one... She doesnt need ANY buffs, if anything she needs a small nerf (which I think is coming OB37)

Somniari
11-09-2016, 03:16 PM
If you don't know how to properly use it, then yes - it is horrible skill.
If you aren't clever enough to remember when you left your illusions, then pick other champ. But honestly, don't lower skill gap for Ying because we need at least one hard to play healer. And she's not really that hard. Dimensional link is fine because you can play with your enemy in really smart way - now I'm here, not I'm not. Great way to avoid for example Bomb King's ultimate.

I'm not sure what "memory" has to do with "being clever" but okay whatever you say. :>
I do not waste my illusions by letting them to just lie around, i use them as homing explosives which is what they were meant to be thanks to shatter being there.....
You heal for a bit then use them for damage when timer is running out on them, but that creates problems that shouldn't be there.
Thanks to shatter you can't "properly use" your escape.
Ying has nothing to do with skill either, i overhealed two level 7 Yings with my lvl3 Grover quite easily just today which means that they either didn't heal and were using shatter or Ying heal sucks too on top of everything else.
If you can't heal AND shatter, then maybe she needs to become one or the other?
Pure dps not healer or pure healer instead of half-assed wanna-be dps.
Bad design, the key word.




And besides that, her illusions aren't there to fool enemy team into thinking that's really you. What made you think that way?

Because i noticed that some players choose to shoot illusions instead of Ying herself, that had given me the great idea about the possibility of using her illusions for survivability as i described.
The illusions only need a bit of a animation fix and to be able to follow you around.
Would be cool i think. Ying would be REAL illusion mistress not a fake one like she is currently.



Because it's global. Grover can't heal person on the other side of the map. Ying can and it's pretty useful.

Nah, it's not useful at all.
You can't see your team ALL OVER the map, you don't know when they need heal and on top of that you can't possibly keep tabs on your entire team making her ultimate ability to heal all over the map absolutely worthless.
Unlike Grover who can make you immortal for 5 sec and all you need to do is stack on him when he uses his ult....



For me it sounds like you want to play as her, but she doesn't suit your playstyle so chose to make a post about it instead of, well, picking another champion? She's not weak. Actually, she's pretty strong due to nature of this game's HUD.

And to me it sounds like you want to sound like a pr0 but can't quite cut it just yet. :>
"shrugs"
I'm yet to see a strong Ying personally. :>
Maybe you're one of those odd-balls whom she fits like a glove, good for you i suppose.

Eclair
11-09-2016, 04:55 PM
I'm not sure what "memory" has to do with "being clever" but okay whatever you say. :>

If you are clever you will memorize your illusion's locations.


Thanks to shatter you can't "properly use" your escape. [...] If you can't heal AND shatter, then maybe she needs to become one or the other?

And that's why she isn't an easy champ. You need to think before pressing RMB. Again, smart person knows when use shatter and when not. Everyone wants a heal who does tons of damage while healing 150k overall. But let's be honest here, it's not going to happen.


Because i noticed that some players choose to shoot illusions instead of Ying herself

Yeah, because those illusions can heal and, when activated, can do much harm. Not because they think that's a real Ying, duh...


Would be cool i think. Ying would be REAL illusion mistress not a fake one like she is currently.

No, it wouldn't because it doesn't fit her playstyle. Sure, we can overload every champion's kit with lot of multitools without any real purpose. That would be cool I guess? Oh, what I'm saying. It wouldn't.


You can't see your team ALL OVER the map, you don't know when they need heal and on top of that you can't possibly keep tabs on your entire team making her ultimate ability to heal all over the map absolutely worthless.

But you can see them from a distance. You can see them fighting and logical assumption would be that they need some help. Ability to heal from a big distance without forcing an ally to reposition is still an advantage. You can't have heal as potent as Grover's and as far as Ying's ultimate because that would make other champions usless.


And to me it sounds like you want to sound like a pr0 but can't quite cut it just yet. :>

So what, main reason of her popularity are boobs? Even in pro-scene? Or what? Is there any reason for people to pick underpowered healer so much?
And you are calling this majority of players odd-balls? Last time I checked odd meant something abnormal, not quite common, unusual.

She's my favourite healer. Quite strong and fun to play. But I wouldn't be surprised if they decided to nerf her. After all I like to have this game as balanced as possible because having overpowered champions ruins game for most of the people.

ToxicSquiid
11-09-2016, 05:49 PM
This thread is a joke right?