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View Full Version : Grovers kit is a mess



FenexDragonis
10-04-2016, 05:18 PM
first of all i want to say, by no means am i saying grover is bad.. im saying his kit is a mess with a major contradiction within it, and no circumstance where i would see him more viable over any other support.

With that being said i first want to cover this contradiction.... this being the bonus damage in his throw axe and his healing aura... as grover where would you want to be to provide the most effective healing... near your front lines, the trade off is you get to heal with the aura.. but you sacrifice a great deal of damage compared to other supports... Secondly the distance damage bonus does not apply versus shields..... so if your attacking a shielded player your doing 300 damage to the shield reguardless of distance..

Next lets look at his three healing sources... the aura... blossom, and his ultimate... with the exception of ghrok(whos totem is quite potent with the right card, and can deal enough damage to make people want to keep distance) no other character suffers this range restriction as all of grovers heals are based on a radius originating from him, this is further made worse by..low mobility and not so relyable vine

then there is vine.. which has to be the worst mobility skill in the game.. as its range limited, has travel time and is not always reliable.... compared to any other mobility ability in the game.. which is activated and you it gains its effect..

im not even going to touch on his large hitbox and low mobility(which is pathetically low when you consider all of his healing is radiated from him)

Crippling throw is kind of sad too.. the damage is low the duration of the cripple is low...


now i see grover as a charcter that shouldn't be the highest damage support in the game.. nor the best healer either... more a character that can hold his own in both fairly well... and where he excels is in providing sustained heals... which brings me to some changes i think could help put him in more desirable place...

axe throw- Remove the bonus damage... increase the damage to bring him more in line with other supports... as in his current form if he gets singled out by himself... his damage is so low at close ranges he cant defend himself all that well... and his healing doesnt really allow him to out last a enemy player either...

crippling throw - remove the card that allows duration increase.. and just increase it to a base 2 seconds... OR leave the base duration alone (still removing the aforementioned card) and implement a passive that increases the duration of the cripple based on distance the ability travels..

Vine- remove travel time... more reliable.. or at very least remove any cooldown attached to unsuccessful uses of this ability(currently one second)

Blossom-(this is the big change)... increase the healing from the aura from 80 a second to 100-120.
Removing the heal attached to the activation of this ability... instead... allow grover to throw a seed or pod (doesnt really matter) that attaches itself to a friendly player... granting that player 2 effects... #1 when outside of blossoms aura range.. gains healing from blossoms aura at a reduced value like 50%... #2 when the player is within range of grovers aura... they loose effect #1 but instead gain increased healing from blossoms aura by 50-75%....... Blossom remains attached to a friendly player unless the player is killed.. or grover recalls it by activating the ability again... activation should have a very short or no cooldown attached to it... (no longer has a burst heal associated with it)

with this blossom change it would grant grover the ability to assist his team mates with minor healing without having to be close to them... though it would not be as effective... mind you the numbers are purely theoretical... and yes i kinda drew inspiration from zenyattas orb of harmony here...

just some conceptual food for thought.... as like i said his current kit he gets punished either by not being able to do much damage... or gets punished for not being able to provide heals to his teammates... but the worst part of all of this is the fact his axe throw does 300 damage to shields reguardless of distance..

right now grover just feels like he is struggling to find his identity within the support role

Rogueldr
10-04-2016, 08:43 PM
Noticed this when i first tried him and it kinda turned me off to him as he always has to choose between heals or damage.

ok... he's got 3 PBAoE heals.

Does more damage the farther away he is.

... wait... what?

That being said i've seen him used very effectively. The vine skill basically turns you into batman and lets you get places many others can't.

FenexDragonis
10-04-2016, 08:56 PM
Noticed this when i first tried him and it kinda turned me off to him as he always has to choose between heals or damage.

ok... he's got 3 PBAoE heals.

Does more damage the farther away he is.

... wait... what?

That being said i've seen him used very effectively. The vine skill basically turns you into batman and lets you get places many others can't.


yes grovers basic attack starts at like 300-350 if the enemy is right ontop of you and can deal up to 1200 but the distance that takes is going to almost never happen in siege(this is something that was left over from back when grover was melee.. and his alt fire threw his axe on a cooldown).. and its not exactally easy to hit.. but there is a trade off as... if the player you hit has a shield up... it will negate the passive and will always hit for 300... this is one reason hes not as desirable but on the other hand the last thing we need is grover melting though shields with the item 1800 damage hits on shields would be a bit retarded especially coming from support... his damage is not relyable.. even more so than pip

like i said i never said grover was bad... i said that his kit is full of contradictions... and the point im trying to make is.. no matter what the team comp is... ying/ghrok/pip will always be desired over him at least when theres only one support..

think about this...
grover- aura heals 80 a second...blossom is 1k on a 15 second cooldown...
pip heals 1k on a 6-8 second cooldown ( i cant recall the exact number)
ying 400 per second per illusion on a 5 second cooldown (so for the sake of arguement 800 a second)
Ghrok- 340 per second for 6 seconds... on a 15 second cooldown (dont qoute me) but can augmented to heal and additional up to 4% of friendlys health per second..

so healing a single target in an ideal situation based upon a 15 second duration each would output
Grover= 2200 healing potentially on a single target every 15 seconds
Ying = 2000 for the first 5 seconds then another 8000 once the second illusion comes out giving her. a potential 15 second heal out put of 10k
Ghrok = 2040 (could be much higher depending on the health of the player as every ghrok should use the healing rain card)
pip = 2000-3000...

mind you this is based on healing a single target over 15 seconds and in absolutely ideal circumstances... when it comes to raw healing ghrok and ying drastically outshine pip and grover... pip can over come this by being able to deal damage... not to mention probaly the most powerful aggressive support ult in the game.. Grovers damage is unrelyable... and his healing only potentially falls behind pips.. ALSO NO I DID NOT INCLUDE ULTS AS THIS CREATES A UNFAIR COMPARION AS ONLY 2 OF THE 4 SUPPORTS HAVE HEALING ULTS

the problem here isnt that his healing potential is low... (people will aruge this... but you have to bare in mind that his aura applies to himself too... and counts twards healing done..so its very easy to bloat... much like those grohks that have games dealing 100K+ damage)... the problem is that his healing is fairly low, and all of it radiates from him.. where both pip and ying can basically direct theres some what.. and ghrok can heal someone very quickly.. then you couple that with his unpredictable/unrelyable damage...
its not any one factor that makes him a mess... its several lesser factors working together...

like i said grover shouldn't be the best healer in the game.... he would be much better suited as a character that is more about slightly below adverage sustained heals (no burst healing) with more relyable damage output