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MalasaBoi
10-04-2016, 04:27 PM
Yes, another Skye balancing/nerf thread, oh joy. I think it is safe to say that Skye is in dire need of a nerf. She has the ability, with the right loadout, to be invisible for 8-10s from her Hidden skill, kill someone, then smoke bomb and stay hidden for another 5 seconds, making her almost impossible to track in all the chaos. Her Ultimate is an AOE Nuke that kills anything that is NOT a tank, which extends her far beyond any other single-target DPS in the game. She doesn't need such a powerful ulti as her left-click and right-click combo'd can already take down any normal DPS/support in a second.

I'd really like to here some of your ideas on how to balance Skye as I feel they'd be very interesting to hear and give the devs a lot of ideas on how she can be balanced. I too have my own ideas on how to balance Skye. I see her as a single-target DPS that prioritizes on picking off damage dealers and supports one by one in order to create an opening for the rest of her team to advance, whether it be to dominate the circle in siege, or to advance the payload further.

Now, here are the aspects about Skye I wish to see balanced and how I thought they should be balanced:

TOP PRIORITY: Her Freedom 3000 Doomsday Nuke.: Honestly, she is a single target DPS, and no single-target DPS should get the ability to potentially one-shot half the team. With this ability, she can potentially run in invis, plant the bomb and smokebomb out. This ability is very powerful in siege mode especially as with that radius everyone from the enemy team will scatter or die. This allows your team to move in and capitalise on the enemy team's scattered position. Not only is this such a strong tactical area-controlling ability, it is also such a strong one-shot.

FIX: Completely rework the ability. IMO I see her as a character to create openings by picking off DDs and supports. I would completely nerf the damage off the bomb. In fact, I would suggest adding a CC alternative to the bomb. A CC that either stuns or blurs the vision of the enemy for ~3 seconds or something similar to that (maybe either have it root the enemy in place?). If wanted, maybe add damage to the bomb (250 - 500 dmg maybe, either instantly or as a DoT). I would suggest something akin to a poison smoke-bomb. Enemies inside the radius get their vision blurred/stunned for a few seconds and they also suffer from a poison DoT.

WHY: This gives Skye's ulti more utility rather than damage since she has enough damage already from her poison darts and normal darts. This ulti would give her an opening to pick off someone or two and get out. With a co-ordinated team, they will be able to capitalise and advance into the team fight as well as this ulti will give them an opening to drive back or kill the whole team. Skye isn't usually meant to go into whole 5-mans by herself and pick someone off and get away with it, she's typically better off capitalising on people who wander from the pack and picking off unaware people one by one. This ulti, however, will allow her to do that BUT it is less frequent so it would be better to have that rather than an ulti that kills 4 people.

SECOND PRIORITY - SMOKE BOMB. This move allows Skye to go into 3-5 mans and allows her to pick someone off and get away with it as the smoke bomb kinda blinds people and makes her invis. This move, coupled with her Hidden skill already allows her to stay invis for 15-20 seconds. That in addition to her, at max, 60% increased movement speed allows her to trawl the map without a trace for a long time. Not to mention that this smoke-bomb allows her to get away, which also partially undermines the utility of the Emergency Exit card.

FIX: For those who want to keep the smoke bomb, I would suggest taking away the movement speed benefit from stealth and lower the invis time and strengthen the visibility impairment of enemies in the smokebomb. This allows her to escape people who are affected by the smoke bomb, but allows enemies who aren't affected but are in the vicinity to trace her to have a chance at chasing her down.

I, however, personally see that her Smoke Bomb should be removed. All she needs is one Invis skill, and the Hidden skill is SO good already, as at can last 8-10 seconds with a 45 - 60% additional movement speed with the right loadout. I would suggest a mini-stun that stuns or confuses (they cant control their actions) a single enemy for 1-2 seconds. This maximizes her single-target DPS potential as it can be used to either initiate a fight or to be able to better her chances in a 1v1. For example if she screws up or doesnt deal enough damage, this mini-stun can help her chase her enemies down or secure the kill.

Situations like a 2v1 or 3v1, she can do a lot of things like invis kill one person and stun the other then go to the other, kill one person, stun the other and run away, or use it as a chase mechanism to stun a runner. Maybe something like a "poison knife" or "taser knife" that she aims and throws and it CCs the target. This skill not only allows her to get away from a 2v1 ambush or 3v1 ambush, it can be used a variety of ways to initiate, control, chase and escape without giving her the GUARANTEE that she'll get away scot-free. If used correctly, this utility will be VERY effective. Skye should be easy to use but HARD to master. The usage of this skill will definitely define the masters from the novices.

THIRD PRIORITY - HIDDEN: This move potentially allows (with the right loadout) Skye to move around the map undetected for 8-10 seconds. She, at max, has a 60% increased movement speed for 8-10 seconds. Given that the maps are also rather small, Skye can run 3/4 of the map with her hidden skill. This move allows her to pick and choose her fights without people seeing her movements. It is very hard to keep a tab on Skye due to this ability and thus it really elevates her above the other flanks like Androxus as it is much easier for her to get behind enemy lines and pick off unaware enemies.

FIX: Honestly I have no qualms with Hidden if Smoke-bomb will get removed. If the Smoke Bomb will get removed, I honestly don't think they should remove or change the hidden ability.

If they decide to keep the Smoke-bomb, I would suggest nerfing the loadout cards that make this move so OP. Either they lower the additional movement speed that the Ninja Loadout card gives to a MAX of 50% rather than 60% (So instead of 15/30/45/60 it would be 20/30/40/50 for the Ninja card progression) OR they lower the invisibility time the Cloak Card gives them (instead of 2/4/6/8 it could be 1.5/3/4.5/6). I would not recommend nerfing both aspects, it's either give up movement speed for duration or give up duration for movement speed. If this nerf were to happen, I would also suggest a lower cooldown on her hidden ability (maybe by 3-5 seconds). Also, if it may seem a bit underpowered at this point maybe add a 2 or 3x damage multiplier to the first 1-3 weapon shots she does 3 seconds after she breaks invis.

These methods are primarily how I'd go about fixing Skye. It gives her more utility to use by herself and makes her valuable as a team-pick as well with her revamped ulti. The current Skye is more like a One-man show and it is easy for her to snowball as her current moveset makes her so overpowered early game and allows the team to snowball, which is a big factor in this fast-paced game. This proposed Skye, however, gives her the utility to make an opening for her team as well as herself. Her revamped ulti allows her and a co-ordinated team to capitalise and win a team fight. In most cases, one big team fight win is really all you need to swing a game to your favor. Her revamped mini-stun in replacement to her Smoke-bomb allows her to initiate 1v1s more effectively, secure kills, chase enemies, control enemies and allows her to escape any ambushes or 2v1s or 3v1s without giving her an 80% guarantee she can escape. Though her chances of escaping will be much lower, with the right juking skills and utilisation of this skill it makes her type of play very skill based. My vision for this new Skye is that she's easy to use and pick up (easy to get kills) but difficult to master.

If you guys have any other better methods of fixing Skye or have suggestions on ways to improve my fixes for Skye post them down this thread. I'm pretty sure Hi-Rez Devs would also like to as well.

Mites
10-21-2016, 09:34 AM
Skye is actualy the weakest char you can find, weakest mobility of all flanker (you can be invisible? so what? you're still so predictable). Least range effectiveness, even buck hit stronger at mid-long range and poor survivability. The one good thing there was on her was her ult, and now it is not even strong. So yes she need some work, but clearly not a nerf.

I'm playing ranked as a top EU player and i can tell you than skye is present in 2% of game, and I have yet to see a team win a ranked game with skye in it.

Rivx
10-21-2016, 01:06 PM
She's weak yeah, but her ult is still one of the strongest, if not the strongest in the game. Its just that everything else she offers is pretty much garbage. Lowest HP bar Evie, low mobility, low/short range damage, bugged rightclick. Stealth mechanic gives her an element of surprise at best since it won't give you a free escape against most semi-competent opponents.

If she was to get better game presence in exchange for reworking her ult, it would be for the best.

R3DBelmont
10-21-2016, 01:23 PM
If Skye gets nerfed any further then no one would wanna play her again (and as much joy as that idea brings to 90% of the butthurt people coming here to rant about her, I honestly don't think even THEY want that as all of a sudden instead of nerf threads we'll be seeing tons of "remove her from game cause she's useless and feeds now", so forgive my pun, but pick your poison...).

What you don't realize is that not only does she have a damage fall off but her arrows also have short range and require you to lead em passed a certain point (at which point they pretty much do no damage anyway), not to mention if you don't finish off whoever you attack and/or run away within 2 seconds, then the sound coming out of cloak will be a dead giveaway and you will be melted by just ONE competent player before you even know what hit you... Without her extended cloaking and mobility she'd honestly be even less viable to use than Evie, at least with evie and her 1800 HP you can still be slippery as hell and give the enemy team a bad time with all of her mobility skills. Once you get taken out of cloak and BOTH your cloaking options are on cooldown, you're dead, plain and simple (unless the enemy player sucks or has a really bad connection... but the chances of that are far and few especially considering skye's gigantic hitbox...).

I say leave her as is and keep her speed/cloaking options, without it she may as well not exist in this game anymore... There are plenty of options to counter a Skye including the cloak detection perk, if you don't wanna use it or don't wanna take the precautions necessary (or if you and your team are just unskilled), then that's just a problem you'll have to deal with, as there are champions far more viable than skye now that she's lost her 50M timebomb of DOOM...

JestaQwky
10-21-2016, 08:16 PM
I agree with R3DBelmont, I think all we see is "Nerf Skye's broken ult" They've nerfed it repeatedly man... At this point you need to look at yourself and consider your own options for countering the bad flanker. You have an extremely cheap item called illuminate, it can show her from further than her effective shot range. You can pick her off before she gets the drop because a stealthed player isn't going to think about getting attacked at a distance. The orange border on a visible character turns red about 1 step before the other player could normally see you.

sinosleep
10-21-2016, 09:57 PM
To be fair this thread was made pre-patch, but yeah post patch Skye's ult is fine. Unfortunately, the rest of her kit actually needs buffs. There's a reason none of the pro players are using her on stream.

Sasquatchias
10-21-2016, 10:21 PM
Honestly I think Skye just needs a damn rework.

As we all clearly have seen even from all the way back in old, OLD Beta no one likes going against Skye - the concept of a Ranged Stealthy Assassin who primarily deals high amounts of burst damage is just un-fun to play against.

And as we've seen time and time again, the littlest changes to different parts of her kit tend to send Skye sky-rocketing across the spectrums of Overpowered and Underpowered, very rarely ever hitting a good middle ground between the two that makes both the High Leveled and Low Leveled pools of players happy.

Her Invisibility is also fairly complicated to balance given how Hi-Rez decided it should work and what it's counters will be like, allowing people to see her if she gets close (thus limiting potential outplays Skye could make, such as sneaking around an enemy directly) but otherwise giving very little indication to Skye sneaking about outside of audio queues (thus making it frustrating for players to try and keep her at a more comfortable range and track her down without outright hugging her.)

I think it'd be better for sake of the game if Skye were to re-evaluated in her role, and were to be reworked in a semi-different direction instead of continually being dragged down this half-ass route Hi-Rez put her on more than a year ago.

SoulJoker
10-22-2016, 03:41 AM
Waiting for MiuiKy to raid this thread because people are still crying over Skye even though her ult got balanced.

Z1R0
10-22-2016, 09:24 AM
I not only agree with OP, but think that whoever say skye is balanced either play another flanker or tank, cuz playing a dmg class while skye on the other team is the definition of party crusher.
Whenever I play a non 4000k HP class and see it on the other team, I know the whole purpose of "dmg class" will be wasted. usualy about 80% of my deaths on those game are by her, optimistic scenario.

I dont get why a game like this needs a cliche class like a rouge. its useless vs high HP tank and by far and wide OP vs lower HP and mostly long range classes.

After 75 hrs game time there is no class I think is OP except skye , there are small balances needed, and sure picking a certain class will give u benefits over some and disadvantages vs others, but all in all champions here have counters, and can be outplayed with skill. except skye... if u happen to play a bit to the side and not the middle, you are easy prey.

I completely think skye at her current state (needs big changes to it, a one shot aoe ulti is the most crazy thing I've seen in a while in any game) doesnt belong in this game, should be either nerfed huge time or be removed from this game ASAP. I know it sounds histeric, but personaly for me its a game breaker, I intended to write about it and seen this thread, and seeing so many games where 1 class can shift the balance so often (happen to have cassie and kinessa and the other team got skye, most chances you lose), I feel its the only thing that makes me wanne not play this game anymore. yes, I mostly play dmg classes, but even when I dont I see a skye in my team vs dmg classes on the other, I know we win this fairly easy.

Dawnlazy
10-22-2016, 10:53 AM
Skye is literally a mosquito. She pops up, pricks you a bit with her needle gun, you try to kill her, she disappears and you get tired of chasing her. Needs more ammo and less spread on her primary (could possibly be introduced via loadout cards), also shorter animation after you shoot your poison arrows so that there's less delay between poisoning someone and then spraying them down with your primary.

coffemilk
10-22-2016, 01:29 PM
Skye is literally a mosquito. She pops up, pricks you a bit with her needle gun, you try to kill her, she disappears and you get tired of chasing her. Needs more ammo and less spread on her primary (could possibly be introduced via loadout cards), also shorter animation after you shoot your poison arrows so that there's less delay between poisoning someone and then spraying them down with your primary.

Need more amm.... what?
Many good skye players can obliterate kinessa, cassie and maldamba, and harrassing champions like bomb king, drogoz, viktor, and many other tanks and supports with just three poison bolt and one clip (15 rds) of ammo. And you still think she still needs more ammo?

R3DBelmont
10-22-2016, 01:33 PM
I'm starting to believe that the people that still complain about her being OP have not used her since she got nerfed... It's a helluva lot harder to get a kill with her ult now unless the enemy team is a bunch of idiots or are stuck somewhere... Playing an agressive Skye now is pretty much suicide, just like buck her JOB is to take out roamers because she's a freaking flanker... If you're soloing, whether you're a squishy or a tank and the enemy team has a skye then you deserve to get destroyed by her, and in all honesty, she STILL isn't that great at 1v1 compared to Buck, especially if she misses her posion arrows because then her damage will be measly and EASILY outdone by any other DPS class in this game.

So people, enough with these sensless, salty "nerf skye" threads or she's just gonna end up as another "Nerf this character for no reason" meme...
http://pre03.deviantart.net/c8f2/th/pre/i/2015/361/a/e/nerfing_greninja_by_roro102900-d9lpnc6.jpg

Morale of the story:
If you see a Skye on the enemy team then STICK TOGETHER, and you'll pretty much limit her approach options almost to zero because a Skye that jumps into a grouped up team of enemy players, cloaked or no, has a death wish...

Dawnlazy
10-22-2016, 01:43 PM
Need more amm.... what?
Many good skye players can obliterate kinessa, cassie and maldamba, and harrassing champions like bomb king, drogoz, viktor, and many other tanks and supports with just three poison bolt and one clip (15 rds) of ammo. And you still think she still needs more ammo?
15 rounds that go anywhere but where your crosshair is pointing in a game with a higher TTK is pretty low. If not more ammo then definitely less spread at least.

sinosleep
10-22-2016, 01:47 PM
Again I ask, if she's so broken why aren't any of the pros o. Stream using her? They actually have most incentive out of anyone to use broken characters and yet they aren't. Maybe it's cause she's not.

trzyiks
10-24-2016, 02:27 AM
I feel like people who write all those posts about nerfing skye are pretty much useless with countering her (I am pretty bad with it, but I played skye a lot and still like to do that) good Cassie can rape skye with her dodge, evie can run away and come back if she is fast enough and kill her, buck - its obvious, pip can rape skye easily, avoiding skye ults is or movement skill or hide behind something - even payload. She is really bad on some maps because of lack of actuall movement speed (Timber Mill + skye = loose). So yea lets nerf her further and then delete her from game cause thats what will happen. I still play her even though she is weaker than she was, just like style of play.

Also dont forget she is still bugged - hidden doesnt always work.

Buck in right hands is a beast against everyone and yet people are still making same amount of posts about skye and buck.

BlitherBlip
10-24-2016, 08:22 AM
Do people not use the game sounds? She makes a loud-ass noise whenever she decloaks.

Anyway, Skye is... weird. Personally I'd see her completely reworked from the ground up, though not exactly sure how. I think she'll always be a character that's terrible in competitive, and yet OP against anyone newer to the game with how she currently works.

MPonder
10-24-2016, 09:32 AM
Suggestion:

- Her ult does dmg also to allies (Octakill)

J/K

Seriously, her invisibility is pretty annoying. She should be punished for failing to kill someone for not being able to go stealth anymore. The moment that she get out of stealth and get shoot, she should not being able to go invisible, just after some seconds of not being shoot.

Sasquatchias
10-24-2016, 09:49 AM
Do people not use the game sounds? She makes a loud-ass noise whenever she decloaks.

Anyway, Skye is... weird. Personally I'd see her completely reworked from the ground up, though not exactly sure how. I think she'll always be a character that's terrible in competitive, and yet OP against anyone newer to the game with how she currently works.

Fucking finally someone else sees it my way and once her reworked as well.

I've said it time and again her kit right now is an absolute trap where you can't buff her without making her OP in lower levels and can't nerf her without making her even more garbage in higher levels of play, and the concept of a Ranged Burst Stealth champion is so very, VERY hard to balance out because she has to be strong enough to 100-0 someone in a mere two seconds and squishy enough to die horribly should she fail.

I'd just rather see her reworked entirely to something different - like maybe instead of being a burst Assassin she could be a sort of "Sustained" Assassin, roaming around the backlines being a constant nuisance with applications of low damaging but long lasting poison effects and such.

VoodooJinx
10-24-2016, 09:55 AM
They can take my ult in favor of better stealth other than that " please leave Skye alone "

trzyiks
10-24-2016, 02:51 PM
She is basically too weak atm, idc about her ult, for her ult i would take aoe poison grenade for example, also she shouldnt be visible during hidden unless she actually runs into u. AOE poison for one reason only, atm she is basically only usable when u got perfect configuration of enemies for her that is viktor, kinessa, barik, whatever the tank, grover - with that she is a beast. but when u got good cassie, ying, buck against, skye sucks hard.

AsisKotsuro
10-24-2016, 03:06 PM
I hate Skye more than any character in the game, hate her with all my guts, every time I see a Skye on the enemy team I feel like I get an ulcer. But I don't want her to be taken away or anything, but here is my problem with her, her ult, like you said, screw that, only upside is it got nerfed with fall off damage, but even then it wasn't enough, I was almost at full HP with Pip, just like 80%, and was killed by the fall off radius. It's ridiculous, but my biggest flaw with her is her hidden ability... There is only ONE reason why illuminate exists, ONE reason, and ONE reason only, Skye, that is all. I have to always use illuminate whenever I go up against a Skye, cause she just pops out of nowhere! She forces you to use illuminate, and in doing so you lose the defense section of your items. You KNOW something is wrong with your character when you have to reserve one item slot JUST for her.

TL;DR

HATE SKYE WITH A PASSION AND WANT TO SEE HER NERFED, but I get that she is pretty weak without these gimmicks... Still wanna see her nerfed though.

trzyiks
10-25-2016, 02:37 AM
Dude if you need iluminate to kill skye with pip u shouldnt play pip, or just train a bit more, when i play skye and see pip, im scared. He is a beast against her with his flee skill weightless or whatever he avoids first burst dmg>slows so i cant avoid his shots, heals himself and after 3 shots skye is dead.

As for skyes ult, its ridiculous that you whine about that, check fkin bomb king ult, all you can do against it is kill it before he explodes, dmg is simillar and u get stunned. While with skyes ult you hear and see that it is coming and you can hide behind payload, map object or just use flee skill. Skyes ult is strong only against newbies.

NotThomas
10-25-2016, 02:56 PM
I agree with the OP.

Skye has a pretty un-fun kit. She's the most annoying character to play against.
Even balance aside, she needs changes for the overall health of the game.

I personally don't like stealth, but if you want to keep it then sure, I guess. But it's really hard to find a good counterplay to stealth that feels good for both parties. Right now, giving up 10/20/30% resistance to attacks, just to see Skye coming feels really bad. Also because half the time it doesn't really help you, or she just gets away again.

I think what Skye desperately needs, from a design perspective, is some amount of risk tied in to her agressive playstyle. Her smokescreen, stealth, and movement speed make it way to easy for her to get out again if she messes up. Which is unfair, considering that she also nearly always can decide when to engage.
If you have the liberty to engage whenever and wherever you so choose, that should come with a downside.

Then there's the problem with her ult, which is in my opinion, that it gives way too much zone control/objective control to a character that is designed for single target damage.
It happened to me, and I do this as well, that you just place your bomb on the point and the entire enemy team has to back off, or they die, and you easily win the game off it.

My suggestions would be to do away with the smokescreen, and replace it with a slow, probably an AOE slow. This will achieve two things: It will take away some of that slipperiness that is quite unhealthy. And 2) it gives her a slow which will make it easier to land hits and eliminate important targets, much in line with her design, without becoming too oppressive I think.

Suggestion 2) Change her ult to implode, sucking in all enemies in range.
I think this would be a far healthier ability, that doesn't change all that much in terms of character. While it should be really fun to play with, and more fun to play against, and be somewhat similar in power level to her current ult.
I think it would also fit her gameplay better. Sucking in all enemies, which allows her to kill them with her gun. Instead of just dropping a bomb and just running away again, which is pretty boring for both parties.

AsisKotsuro
10-25-2016, 07:58 PM
I didn't mean it as Pip, I meant it as pretty much any other character, I can easily kill Skye with a few hits. I meant as any other character, or one that doesn't have good movement so that they have no chance of avoiding her. Illuminate I have to use on every character other than Pip and Buck. I have to know where she is at all time.

As for her bomb, at least in casual, cause hell if I can ever get on competitive, I find it a lot more difficult to avoid than Bomb King, I have no problem against Bomb King's ultimate. I usually never get hit by it, since it has a slow start up and one can easily just take him out or run.