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View Full Version : isn't Androxus' Defiance a bit shitty?



Oinegue
09-30-2016, 10:19 AM
Guys I really cannot understand why using defiance for 2050 dmg in 1.2 sec, risking to waste ammo cuz it can hardly hit with all bullets even a stationary target, when with 3 shots he can deal 1800 dmg in 1.5 sec... Don't you think defiance is a bit shitty right now?? I would power buff its damage to make it worthy, or, at least increasing a bit its accuracy (maybe from 75% to 82,5% - a rough 7,5% increase?)

Tell me what you think about this skill!

dusan4
09-30-2016, 12:17 PM
It doesnt deal 2050, the skills tab mismatches, it has 3X300 + 500 bonus damage. They should remove defiance and create another ability for him. Like, a, IDK a self heal ability since hes a flank or smth.

MiuiKy
09-30-2016, 12:20 PM
To be honest I doubt people here will agree with you but in MY experience I hardly see any Androxus using Defiance, the normal shot is accurate and does a good damage at close range and defiance only works at close range too anyways and if you miss just one of the 3 bullets Defiance does a damage so low that one close range shot would be stronger.

MiuiKy
09-30-2016, 12:23 PM
It doesnt deal 2050, the skills tab mismatches, it has 3X300 + 500 bonus damage. They should remove defiance and create another ability for him. Like, a, IDK a self heal ability since hes a flank or smth.

Disagree.. Maybe changing the skill is good but, giving him a heal? No.. He already have cards for that, one that heals him when he uses Nether Step, if I remember correctly at Lv4 is 240 per step, he has 3 so 720 and another card that, at Lv4, regenerates 40% of the damage absorved by reversal, other than if Androxus had a healing ability I believe he would be OP, he can already 2~3 shot most squishies, giving him heals is just sadist.

Oinegue
09-30-2016, 12:38 PM
Disagree.. Maybe changing the skill is good but, giving him a heal? No.. He already have cards for that, one that heals him when he uses Nether Step, if I remember correctly at Lv4 is 240 per step, he has 3 so 720 and another card that, at Lv4, regenerates 40% of the damage absorved by reversal, other than if Androxus had a healing ability I believe he would be OP, he can already 2~3 shot most squishies, giving him heals is just sadist.

totally agree, the heals would be excessive. However the step-to-heal card works only on the first step just like the "reload" one, but I might be wrong. However, I think that Androxus' high mobility doesen't compensate the low burst damage... I mean, Skye has insane sustained damage, which is only compensated with the low range, but she can actually avoid enemy fire with 2 stealths...

Androxus on the other side has low burst, requires insanely high skill to place crits (which is the only way to play him effectively) and his reversal isn't well scripted because of the third person view - which makes aiming a pain in the ass - and the not visually clear "immunity hitbox".

Another idea is to make defiance a medium cooldown right click with normal damage and slightly reduced accuracy, which would give a competitive burst damage during flanking - whyle making reversal a first person view skill!

DarkFuma
09-30-2016, 12:47 PM
XD. I guess you never seen an Androxus go full reload speed then?

Get Quick Draw IV and maxed Deft hands. After that, you'll reload so fast that it's almost like you DON'T reload. This then makes Defiance a more appealing option to use because you'll probably have 12 or more bullets coming at them with defiance in the same time that it would've taken you to empty a clip by shooting normally.

Pretty much what defiance does is give you increase attack speed at the cost of ammo and some potential damage. While, realistically, it might not be your BEST attack, it could save you in a pinch by doing more damage in a shorter period of time.

Sarkai
09-30-2016, 12:55 PM
I agree that Defiance needs to be changed, but I'm not sure it's a matter of damage. If they DID increase the damage, however, one option is to give it a CD.

Boosts to the Defiance cards could be an option, so that it becomes used primarily as a utility. That's the only reason I currently use Defiance paired with Abyssal Touch. Combined with Reversal/Power of the Abyss, my Nether Step tends to only take 2-4 seconds to cool down.

Another option is to keep it where it is, but reduce the accuracy penalty. If I'm able to get into optimal range, I should be able to land all 3 of Defiance's shots with the same ease of 3 normal shots.

FenexDragonis
09-30-2016, 08:14 PM
marksman 3 + defiance.... the shield melter.. as long as you hit all three shots.. defiance is an ability designed to be used when sneaking up on someone to get a huge damage bust before they realize your attacking them....

with marksman 3 its also good for melting though fernando/barik/makoa sheilds as it becomes free to use

though i could support a toning down the damage a bit in exchange for slight increase in accuracy

MiuiKy
09-30-2016, 08:19 PM
OK guys I got it here, tested and everything, strap yourselves in cuz I also offer a solution to this!

Defiance, in the current state, does 3 shots of 300 damage and a bonus of 500, assuming you hit all of them, in the time you do the Defiance you can barely make 2 normal shots each dealing 620 damage, let's assume the shots went for maximum damage without any falloff.

Defiance 3 shots hit: 300x3 + 500 = 1400
LMB 2 shots hit: 620x2 = 1240
Difference: 1400 - 1240 = 160

So it only does 160 damage more than 2 normal shots.. Assuming you can hit them all of course and now there's 3 variables I must lay out:

1 - The LMB shots suffers huge falloff damage which makes Defiance a "certain" shot that will deal always between 300, 600 or 1400 damage.
2 - Defiance has less accuracy wich means it's more usefull in close distances where the LMB faloff wouldn't be present anyways.
3 - At long distances one of the shots of Defiance will ALWAYS hit, the first one, dealing 300 damage while LMB does 154, HOWEVER, like I said above, while you do Defiance you basicly could had shot 2 LMB dealing 308 damage, more accurately and using 2 bullets instead of 3.

Conclusion: There's no real good use of Defiance.. Only if you manage to stay 24/7 in a very close distance against a big target like BK or Fernando and have Defty Hands item + Quickdraw card since it CAN do a high DPS assuming, like I said, you hit all 3 shots but making a Defiance focused build rellies on you staying always too close not to miss and having a very high reload speed since 2 Defiance means 1 reload.

Solution: In my opinion, how about increase the damage of each individual shot to, let's say, 400 damage and the bonus would be just 300? So the maximum damage you could do would be 1500 damage (just a 100 increase), doing so would make at least if you hit 2 shots profitable, not as good as hiting 2 LMB but still not a waste.

Tell me what you guys think tho'.

DarkFuma
09-30-2016, 08:29 PM
Here's the problem. It takes two shots to equal one defiance and you can do 4 defiances in a space of an entire clip if you have max reload speed. (which is a really good thing to go for with him) So, if you can hit all your shots, you'll do more damage in a shorter period of time.

FenexDragonis
09-30-2016, 08:36 PM
Here's the problem. It takes two shots to equal one defiance and you can do 4 defiances in a space of an entire clip if you have max reload speed. (which is a really good thing to go for with him) So, if you can hit all your shots, you'll do more damage in a shorter period of time.

actually if you have the marksman 3 card and can hit all three shots... you can defiance indefinitely(hitting shields counts as a hit for this)... ive had several people call claim im hacking because of this i can only immagine how retarded it could get with the shield breaker item

DarkFuma
09-30-2016, 10:20 PM
actually if you have the marksman 3 card and can hit all three shots... you can defiance indefinitely(hitting shields counts as a hit for this)... ive had several people call claim im hacking because of this i can only immagine how retarded it could get with the shield breaker item

Guess that's an alternative, but I find Quick Draw IV and deft hands (could probably even have a lower quick draw) to be superior because you almost don't reload. It literally takes less than a second to reload with max Quick Draw and Deft hands. It's definitely a forgiving build if you miss.

Only downside is the fact that you can't get wrecker or what not if you go with that build.

Superflare9
01-10-2017, 01:32 PM
Maybe they could replace Defiance and put in a stun ability that makes it so you can stun the enemy for a few seconds or less. That would make it so that you could get out of a bad situation or just attack the enemy. It doesn't even have to be for that long it would be like a means of escape or something like that. It would also be useful if they were flanking and then they were spotted. Then they could throw that and escape from a raging fernando or makoa. If you agree then maybe Androxus would become a bit better while not making him that op.

EpplZ
01-10-2017, 01:56 PM
Androx is already really strong as he's, defiance can be tweaked but the "stun" or "self heal" ideas I see there would make him unbeatable

Haubrick
01-10-2017, 04:13 PM
I've always had a nice idea on my mind to exchange the defiance of Androxus. Do you want to have less similarities with OW? than remove defiance because of McCree. Do you want to have really different abilities among the champions, and no only reused and non creative abilities? Than the stun and self heal should not be added. Let's think in something new and unique to him, that would be like his style.

So I would propose that in the place of defiance, an conjuration ability. Androxus have the like of a necromancer of an other world and would be different from any other champion ability.

Just imagine: Androxus wold flank a Viktor, but before shooting, he could press his RMB while aiming at him to invoke a group of 3 undeads to chase him, slowing him and having a little damage over some seconds.