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View Full Version : Healing abilities rework idea



HardK0R
09-23-2016, 05:26 PM
I'm sure all you guys all faced the dreaded tank/healer combos. I was just thinking that Pip's and Grover's healing abilities should heal you slowly over time instead of insta-healing you 1000 HP.

Perhaps 250hp/sec for 4 seconds or 333hp/sec for 3 seconds and/or the healing rate is lowered if you take damage.

What do you guys think?

Laserman
09-23-2016, 06:29 PM
IIRC pip's used to be a regenerative effect, so was grover's
Not sure why they changed it

BDra
09-23-2016, 06:44 PM
I really hope they first fix the no skill/tactic meatshield tanks that were considered a failure, but that they reintroduced because they are simplifying the game again (they seem to think dept/learning curves scare away people).

Once that is fixed, they can focus on healing. Because if they fix healing now, then fix the other problem, then they'll have to adjust healing again. That would be double work for the same result.

Miragen
09-23-2016, 08:07 PM
Doesn't seem too bad to me, healing has a decent cooldown and it doesn't heal for insane amounts.
Unlike some other games where a healer can keep a player alive in 1v2 or 1v3s, here it offers a bit more sustain but it won't really keep you alive because TTK is rather low.

Mundal
09-23-2016, 08:23 PM
Doesn't seem too bad to me, healing has a decent cooldown and it doesn't heal for insane amounts.
Unlike some other games where a healer can keep a player alive in 1v2 or 1v3s, here it offers a bit more sustain but it won't really keep you alive because TTK is rather low.

The only game close to Paladins i have played is TF2 (clocked over 4k hours) and in competitive (and also in regular matches) everyone knows you go after the medic and then the one who he is healing. Medic can't heal himself instantly and regenerates health overtime but in Paladins healers can heal themselves instantly and use their traverse move to get out of difficult situations while dealing damage - Pip, Grokh deal damage like crazy, grover though deals at farther distance. That's just bs. Ya know how many times i used my anchor (makoa) on Grokh only to find out when i pull him towards me he always uses his ghost walk and i cant do jack sh*t to him, he escapes and uses his totem to heal himself whose cooldown is reduced by ghostwalk (win-win much ?).

I tried my anchor on pip only to get smashed in face by his flask which slowed me down and then he uses his weightlessness to flank and use his aoe primary to bring me down.
SMH the entire time i was thinking , omg how do i even kill these guys , instant heals, good traversing moves and damage dealing weapons are not only making them invincible but dangerous DD too.

Mundal
09-23-2016, 08:28 PM
I really hope they first fix the no skill/tactic meatshield tanks that were considered a failure, but that they reintroduced because they are simplifying the game again (they seem to think dept/learning curves scare away people).

Once that is fixed, they can focus on healing. Because if they fix healing now, then fix the other problem, then they'll have to adjust healing again. That would be double work for the same result.

People supporting OP champions are the ones who like playing with them, getting easy kills with no skills is like a heaven to them. As much as i enjoy using these OP classes i just want it to be balanced. I don't want this game ending up having some champions really weak with no one using them at all, then what's the point of even having them in the first place.

FaithInDestruction
09-23-2016, 08:58 PM
People supporting OP champions are the ones who like playing with them, getting easy kills with no skills is like a heaven to them. As much as i enjoy using these OP classes i just want it to be balanced. I don't want this game ending up having some champions really weak with no one using them at all, then what's the point of even having them in the first place.

That's why you use the anti- healing cards to negate the effects of the heal, if you have enough of those you'll make a grover and grohk useless, pip can still be good cos of the slow tho

Hey at least they provided a counter to healing that most of the champions have access to, unlike in some games where only one hero can negate heals *cough* ana *cough*

Miragen
09-23-2016, 09:24 PM
The only game close to Paladins i have played is TF2 (clocked over 4k hours) and in competitive (and also in regular matches) everyone knows you go after the medic and then the one who he is healing. Medic can't heal himself instantly and regenerates health overtime but in Paladins healers can heal themselves instantly and use their traverse move to get out of difficult situations while dealing damage - Pip, Grokh deal damage like crazy, grover though deals at farther distance. That's just bs. Ya know how many times i used my anchor (makoa) on Grokh only to find out when i pull him towards me he always uses his ghost walk and i cant do jack sh*t to him, he escapes and uses his totem to heal himself whose cooldown is reduced by ghostwalk (win-win much ?).

I tried my anchor on pip only to get smashed in face by his flask which slowed me down and then he uses his weightlessness to flank and use his aoe primary to bring me down.
SMH the entire time i was thinking , omg how do i even kill these guys , instant heals, good traversing moves and damage dealing weapons are not only making them invincible but dangerous DD too.

Well if you want to make support classes do even less healing, then their dps is more than justified as that will becomes their main thing.
And Grohk and Pip, and Grover to a degree can deal good amounts of damage, but in no way can they ever keep up with actual damage dealers, aslong as they aren't being hard countered.

And the biggest thing is that support mainly deals damage, where the other classes deal damage and get the solo kills. When I play Pip I can deal a lot of damage from behind a shield or longer distances, but as soon as someone gets low an health they can easily escape and heal up. Meaning most of their damage is meaningless at the end of the day.

A Cassie doing 50k damage and making 15 kills is generally more important to a team than a 100k damage with 5 kills.

yifflord
09-24-2016, 12:49 AM
turning grover's heal into a heal over time would just have people saying he's a lucio clone the same way they say drogoz is a pharah clone and fernando is a reinhardt clone

but on the pip discussion i've never had an issue with an enemy pip. his damage isn't that high and neither is his healing. if pip is one thing though, it's being an annoying rat. his slow and survivability can be really frustrating if you're not playing a hyper mobile champion like evie.

the thing is though that i've learned is that you shouldn't overcommit to killing pip, because while you're chasing him down and he's just playing the cooldown game with his survival tools, his team isn't missing any large amount of damage, nor are they missing any huge forms of sustain because his heal isn't that good. but your team is at a disadvantage because whatever you offer to a team is just gone for however long it takes for you to either give up killing pip, pip kills you, or you kill pip.

Mundal
09-24-2016, 06:35 AM
Well if you want to make support classes do even less healing, then their dps is more than justified as that will becomes their main thing.
And Grohk and Pip, and Grover to a degree can deal good amounts of damage, but in no way can they ever keep up with actual damage dealers, aslong as they aren't being hard countered.

And the biggest thing is that support mainly deals damage, where the other classes deal damage and get the solo kills. When I play Pip I can deal a lot of damage from behind a shield or longer distances, but as soon as someone gets low an health they can easily escape and heal up. Meaning most of their damage is meaningless at the end of the day.

You still don't get my point read the last line, it says instant heals+good traversals+ damage = how do i kill them ? Ofcourse its not impossible to kill them but a combination of all above qualities make them extremely hard to kill. Either buff other champs to counter them or nerf these supports.


A Cassie doing 50k damage and making 15 kills is generally more important to a team than a 100k damage with 5 kills.

well that's considering ideal conditions i.e. when Cassie killed 15 (without any help from her teammates) all on her own while the other champ (lets say Viktor for example) did 100k to enemy team players (all of which healed completely) but managed to kill only 5, but... you don't consider actual scenario where that 100k made the target squishy and most likely helped Cassie or other team member land a finishing blow to the it and hence you see so many eliminations and less solo kills. I remember playing Buck in enchanted forest getting 39 eliminations and dealing massive damage and just 4 or 5 solo kills but i know that i left so many enemy targets squishy to the point where my team mates would just had to fart on them to kill them LOL.

Ellezard
09-24-2016, 09:23 AM
Heal over time has always been boring to play against. The reason is that burst heal can make more active plays while HoT is always a passive thing. You can save someone with a burst heal and have them live with 100-200 hp after they use the escape but you can't save people with HoT majority of the time unless it heals so much you get 500-600 per sec so it can fight against people that do 800-900 per sec.

And with a lot of character having built-in reduced healing (along with the burn card for it), healing isn't that much of an issue, really. The actual damager still deal way more damager or burn through shield faster.

Zeleen
09-24-2016, 12:15 PM
Ugh, just no.

Laserman
09-24-2016, 02:48 PM
Heal over time has always been boring to play against. The reason is that burst heal can make more active plays while HoT is always a passive thing. You can save someone with a burst heal and have them live with 100-200 hp after they use the escape but you can't save people with HoT majority of the time unless it heals so much you get 500-600 per sec so it can fight against people that do 800-900 per sec.

[citation needed]

Jusey1
09-24-2016, 06:36 PM
Speaking from experience with previous games and with playing as Pip in this game (I'm a Medic main personally from TF2 and also spent a lot of time as healers in Overwatch)... Pip needs to be more of an agile healer, than of a mixture of things while being pretty bad at all of it except for staying alive.

For example, change it so his flask heals teammates instantly but only heals him slowly over time while making his secondary attack a healing attack as well, allowing him to focus more on healing rather than on attacking the enemy. Most of the time with him, I've find myself focusing more on damage and dodging while healing my group as a whole (the flask is best for group healing, not single-healing). Which is the idea. The secondary attack is a single healing target while his flask is for the group. I rather have a healing task than slowing the speed of my enemies' down...

His flask is really just like Ana's flask from Overwatch, honestly. (This game just has a x10 attribute to it instead of a normal hundreds amount). So it is honestly fine as it is, just needs not to be tanky for the Pip in question.

Kadurkel
09-25-2016, 07:43 PM
Healing and tanking is easy to counter with items and good teamplay. Even without items if you focus down the damage dealers first and then 5vs2 the tanks with wrecker you take back the point and heal back up.