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scarletbot
09-18-2016, 03:12 PM
I just started playing the game and am having a great time with it. That said I was very disappointed by the female character selection. In general I like playing women characters a lot more. It's just more fun to be able to relate to your champion. I like that there are a few women to choose from, but the women are all extremely similar, both with their place in the gameplay and their look/feel.

They're all extremely thin with big tits.
There are no women tanks.
This game has all these interesting monster characters, but none of them are made like the devs intended them to be women.
They've all got these disney princess high-pitched voices.


Honestly, I really hope you guys work on this going forward. I know you don't like being compared to Overwatch, but guess what, you will be. And Overwatch is really successful partly because they work hard to not alienate half the gamer population. So will you put that work in too, or would you prefer to be remembered as the knock-off brand "Overwatch for Men"?

Boisegang
09-18-2016, 03:29 PM
I've said this in a rather... not scathing, but critical manner in my first impressions post a few months back. I pointed out the lack of diversity in the cast when it came to female characters, and how they're all pretty much using the same character model with different attachments and hair color.

BDra
09-18-2016, 03:36 PM
Before we start this crap again...

1. There's only a limited amount of Champions so far, so don't worry more will come.
2. Yes, a female ogre or troll or alien would be awesome
3. No, not all female models are the same
4. Do you really expect Champions not to be fit? What do you want a fat one? That would be one hell of an effective Champion...

scarletbot
09-18-2016, 04:29 PM
Before we start this crap again...

Uh-oh, so you're telling me this conversation has been had multiple times and these women heroes were the result of that :0 Anyway, as for #3 I know the female models aren't exactly the same, it doesn't change the fact that they're all so similar it's boring.


4. Do you really expect Champions not to be fit? What do you want a fat one? That would be one hell of an effective Champion...
Big women are in general a lot stronger than tiny women, how doesn't that make sense? Women olympic weightlifters or women MMA fighter are fit but they aren't going to look like an hourglass. The women in this game aren't shaped like that because they look like effective fighters, they're shaped like that because it's fun for you to look at.

ChaosAnimagic
09-18-2016, 04:46 PM
ok... so... where's that thread about this? I believe we all talked about it already and we don't want Fat Ugly girls.

KicksBrickster
09-18-2016, 04:59 PM
*Cough* fox girl *cough*

I'm a furry, what did you expect?

BDra
09-18-2016, 04:59 PM
Uh-oh, so you're telling me this conversation has been had multiple times and these women heroes were the result of that :0 Anyway, as for #3 I know the female models aren't exactly the same, it doesn't change the fact that they're all so similar it's boring.

Big women are in general a lot stronger than tiny women, how doesn't that make sense? Women olympic weightlifters or women MMA fighter are fit but they aren't going to look like an hourglass. The women in this game aren't shaped like that because they look like effective fighters, they're shaped like that because it's fun for you to look at.

Well, the moment we get a female Champion that doesn't fly a broom, has to be stealthy, be able to dodge roll at any time and that needs to lift something heavy she can have that model. Currently this isn't the case so it would be illogical...

Btw, did you read 2?

Yiaz
09-18-2016, 06:06 PM
Not again, no.

Kulutes
09-19-2016, 12:23 AM
Real life has plenty of fat ugly chicks to look at. don't need em in videogames too.

No need to pander to SJW's. They dont really play video games. they'll be gone in a week to complain about the next game that doesn't have furry pan-demi-sexual attack helicopters anyway.

Remember your core audience.

scarletbot
09-19-2016, 06:38 PM
ok... so... where's that thread about this? I believe we all talked about it already and we don't want Fat Ugly girls.




Real life has plenty of fat ugly chicks to look at. don't need em in videogames too.

No need to pander to SJW's. They dont really play video games. they'll be gone in a week to complain about the next game that doesn't have furry pan-demi-sexual attack helicopters anyway.

Remember your core audience.
Your mothers must be so proud of you :rolleyes:. Also thank you both for demonstrating the toxic community that springs up from sexist character design.

Miragen
09-19-2016, 09:05 PM
And there are probably a lot of guys out there aswell who prefer playing as a male character, and there are probably more guys than girls playing this game I would guess.

I'm all for variation in genders and classes and whatever, but not for the sake of pandering to a certain community.

Kulutes
09-19-2016, 09:50 PM
What is far more "toxic" (meaningless buzzword) is when people try to force their idea of what is acceptable when there are already a great many people whom enjoy things as they already are.

SJW approved diversity is a massive slippery slope that never end well. all it would do is piss off a large section of the community and stir up unnecessary backlash against the developers.

We already have an Ice Wizard, a Sniper, an Archer an Assassin. that's not diverse enough? or are you so shallow that their appearances are all that matter?

scarletbot
09-19-2016, 10:25 PM
Man, I hope Hi-Rez studios is happy that they'll only be keeping a tiny percentage of their new players. With assholes like you guys chasing new players off, it's no wonder women aren't vocal in your ~community~. You honestly think there's a small group of "SJWs" that want interesting and creative character design? Or that women don't play games? Have you even seen the roster of Overwatch, or wasn't that a successful enough game?

Sourdust
09-19-2016, 10:55 PM
There are thousands of entertainment options to pick from if you feel the need to relate to a fictive character. Even among games there are genres which completely bank on you investing yourself in a contemporary and emotional way in your character of choice. But apparently the fast-paced cartoon action beta is in dire need of some gender equality. I did the math for you, at the moment there are five females, five males, an orc, a furry, a turtle, a bomb-robot, a dragon, a green midget and a tree. Yup, how can any woman not be utterly alienated from the game. In addition to that, those who voice their criticism on this ethical superior game proposition must be backwards misogynists who represent the game's abundant toxic community.

My apologies for the sarcasm, but somehow I fail to take this seriously. Not only does the current pool of heroes have to expand by quite a bit regardless, the game is plagued by a variety of imbalances and gameplay imperfections. Yet this is what bugs you...

EDIT: typo

Miragen
09-20-2016, 05:27 AM
You can't keep calling people assholes because they disagree with your opinion.
Who do you think gets motivated to support you when all you do is insult people and then pretend everyone else is the bad guy?

We've all seen the lineup of Overwatch, and a lot of people dislike it as it caters to SJWs, and not to actual gamers.

Yiaz
09-20-2016, 06:08 AM
Oh, in real life, not all women are like this, there are all kinds of body and blah blah blah
Well, good thing this is a video game, not real life. I don't play a character for what it looks like, i only care about dem skills.

Zeleen
09-20-2016, 01:20 PM
Guys, especially white men scream high and low that they don't care simply don't consider their rampant biases and have internalized their supremacy to a subconscious level. We are seen, heard and represented on all media ad nauseum but in fact many naively think that everyone is treated as well as men are or equally represented.. somewhere... in some way... Male character models also generally tend to bolster masculine fantasies of power and domination whereas it's completely the other way around for women, they are disempowered, sexualized and homogenized ad nauseum.

The only possible comparison I can make for other guys to relate is as follow: Imagine if pretty much all male characters were depicted as ninny looking flaming homos in onesies or half naked in suggestive, sexualized posture. Now realize that how you'd feel about that is a fraction of how women feel about representation.

So whenever a guy screams " ARG !! SJW pandering!! They are really saying : Everything should only pander to MEHHH!!!


Source: I study kyryarchy and structures of oppression/social science. Humbling experience to say the least.

VarenWolf
09-20-2016, 01:25 PM
@Zeleen I agree, but its not a good market strategy because in the end they are a company so they have to work for that. In the end its something you can't really change once they are introduced in the world and people complaining about no female tanks, just relax and wait jesus! its a freakin beta. Smite didn't get its first female warrior till a year or so a ago. Let time go by like JESUS!

BDra
09-20-2016, 01:32 PM
@Zeleen I agree, but its not a good market strategy because in the end they are a company so they have to work for that. In the end its something you can't really change once they are introduced in the world and people complaining about no female tanks, just relax and wait jesus! its a freakin beta. Smite didn't get its first female warrior till a year or so a ago. Let time go by like JESUS!

Logic and forums don't go well together, but it's good to know some people still make sense.

Kulutes
09-20-2016, 01:35 PM
Is this really the place to write a tumblr blog?

Zeleen
09-20-2016, 01:41 PM
I was merely stating a fact of life that is too often shrugged off I don't care either way... Did I sounded like I was making demands? Oh well :confused:

I thought I made it clear that I'm in the same boat I'm not better or worse than the next guy, albeit just slightly more lucid about certain stuff. It's still hard for me to give a fck really and like many I "care" mostly about gameplay, responsiveness, skill ,etc and seldom mind models themselves...

VarenWolf
09-20-2016, 02:05 PM
I was merely stating a fact of life that is too often shrugged off I don't care either way... Did I sounded like I was making demands? Oh well :confused:

No i understood what you were saying, but sometimes you kinda have to dumb it down for people so I kinda did that as my job.

PinusMaximus
09-20-2016, 02:15 PM
Guys, especially white men scream high and low that they don't care simply don't consider their rampant biases and have internalized their supremacy to a subconscious level. We are seen, heard and represented on all media ad nauseum but in fact many naively think that everyone is treated as well as men are or equally represented.. somewhere... in some way... Male character models also generally tend to bolster masculine fantasies of power and domination whereas it's completely the other way around for women, they are disempowered, sexualized and homogenized ad nauseum.

The only possible comparison I can make for other guys to relate is as follow: Imagine if pretty much all male characters were depicted as ninny looking flaming homos in onesies or half naked in suggestive, sexualized posture. Now realize that how you'd feel about that is a fraction of how women feel about representation.

Every time i read nonsense like this, this is the image I am reminded of:

http://i.imgur.com/qPnk0C7.jpg

If you ever played any asian MMOs you also would find that there is always a super girly type of males for the gay/girl players that we evil males can cringe at all day long(but we just joke about them).


@OP: you know, I think it'd be a good idea if you came forth and posted a couple of example pictures to what you would consider a good addition in terms of female characters to enable a more constructive reaction. There is a VERY good reason why people react upset when someone starts complaining about representation of women and female character styles in games - first it's all about the "diversity" etc and at the end comes the demonization of men because there still might be something those "evil disgusting male chauvinists" might like.

ChaosAnimagic
09-20-2016, 04:34 PM
^ That pic shows exactly what is it.

People that thinks only males want good figure females in game are completely wrong.

Also, did you (OP) not look at Kinessa? she's fairly well built like what you wanted, she's not skinny at all, she could probably crack your neck if she wanted to.

Pretty much all games out there today are made like this, even Overwatch... the females are similar too... and you might point at Mei, but remember, she's got a giant ass winter coat on, you never know what she looks like underneath, she might be skinny as hell for all we know. And points toward Diva and Widowmaker. Case in point. (300% more "sexualized" than any of the Paladin's females)

OH OH, how about that Tracer's pose fiacso early this year? did that turn you off?

You should post this in OW's forum too, and see their reactions, lol.

Yea, if you want to compare the Females of Paladins to Overwatch... you should really think about it first.. OW is a lot more of what you hate.

StreetCherub
09-20-2016, 06:08 PM
There is nothing wrong with asking for more varied characters.

And there very well could be female monster characters as well.

This isn't a bad thing.

If you're getting defensive because someone is asking for this, it just proves the entire point of OP.

I'm pretty upset that there is no female tank. And that's not even from any political standpoint, its just, where is the variety?? But I'd also add there are not any female healers at all either which usually these types of games stereotype as "feminine" roles for some stupid reason...

Sourdust
09-20-2016, 10:41 PM
Guys, especially white men scream high and low that they don't care simply don't consider their rampant biases and have internalized their supremacy to a subconscious level. We are seen, heard and represented on all media ad nauseum but in fact many naively think that everyone is treated as well as men are or equally represented.. somewhere... in some way... Male character models also generally tend to bolster masculine fantasies of power and domination whereas it's completely the other way around for women, they are disempowered, sexualized and homogenized ad nauseum. (...)

Even though I believe this is an extremely well-written and true statement on how human society as a whole is evolving to a point where certain conventions are no longer deemed just or applicable to the current reality (kudos to you), I cannot help but feel irked at your use of ''ad nauseam''. Call it my inner grammar nazi crying out for attention and acknowledgement. You appear to use it in a context that correlates to nausea, while it simply signifies the incessant repetition of an argument to the point where nobody can be bothered anymore to come up with a counter-argument (if there is one to begin with).
The sexualisation and homogenisation of women never was an argument ad nauseam, but rather an unflattering relic from a more uncivilised age, where it did have a purpose of efficiency. Getting rid of that entire idea now, is only the logical next step in the evolution of the human psyche, as that efficiency factor no longer finds any reverberation in today's world at all.

I know I've derailed quite a bit, but it's late and somehow I felt too inspired to let this one slide.

Zeleen
09-21-2016, 05:42 AM
It was a shitty reactionary post.

You're right Sourdust it's a fair observation X_X

BDra
09-21-2016, 05:58 AM
There is nothing wrong with asking for more varied characters.

And there very well could be female monster characters as well.

This isn't a bad thing.

If you're getting defensive because someone is asking for this, it just proves the entire point of OP.

I'm pretty upset that there is no female tank. And that's not even from any political standpoint, its just, where is the variety?? But I'd also add there are not any female healers at all either which usually these types of games stereotype as "feminine" roles for some stupid reason...

True, but there is no reason to use that as an excuse for pushing trough an agenda that says woman are being objectified when it isn't the case here.


Before we start this crap again...

1. There's only a limited amount of Champions so far, so don't worry more will come.
2. Yes, a female ogre or troll or alien would be awesome
3. No, not all female models are the same
4. Do you really expect Champions not to be fit? What do you want a fat one? That would be one hell of an effective Champion...

A really muscled tank wouldn't fall under "fat" of point 4. Buck and Barik are muscled but not fat, this would be the same. But big muscles don't fit the current playstyles of the current female Champions, but there will obviously be more.

ChineseCopy
09-21-2016, 03:49 PM
I just started playing the game and am having a great time with it. That said I was very disappointed by the female character selection. In general I like playing women characters a lot more. It's just more fun to be able to relate to your champion. I like that there are a few women to choose from, but the women are all extremely similar, both with their place in the gameplay and their look/feel.

They're all extremely thin with big tits.
There are no women tanks.
This game has all these interesting monster characters, but none of them are made like the devs intended them to be women.
They've all got these disney princess high-pitched voices.


Honestly, I really hope you guys work on this going forward. I know you don't like being compared to Overwatch, but guess what, you will be. And Overwatch is really successful partly because they work hard to not alienate half the gamer population. So will you put that work in too, or would you prefer to be remembered as the knock-off brand "Overwatch for Men"?

Its a game, the devs don't have to cater to you because we don't have a xenofemale, and forcing females to meet a quota is just as bad as not having any females at all.
You have too much time in your hands to feel bad or "wrong" about something not having X amounts of minorities, or disabled or whatever it is that the US people are now spouting.

Besides, you can add monster-girls like female orcs, or zombies, or fat ones. That won't stop people from masturbating to them.

yifflord
09-21-2016, 03:52 PM
Before we start this crap again...

2. Yes, a female ogre or troll or alien would be awesome
.
tfw we get an ogre or troll or alien that looks like a large breasted human girl with green skin with big teeth or pointy ears or a third boob

adamcjd
09-21-2016, 04:05 PM
You're entitled to your opinions I suppose but there's a few glaring fallacies here; first being "half the gamer pop will be alienated" for starters, woman make up an incrediblly small minority of gamers, well well over half are men. You also then assume that every woman will be alienated or offended, when in reality it's a fraction of the fraction of all gamers who will care. Sure variation in models are hide, but it'll come as we get more champions. Second is you mentioning overwatch. The whole tracer pose thing was Ow basically telling the extreme feminists they didnt care. Not directly at first but they officially made a statement when asked if they would change it again because woman still weren't happy. They basically said "tough don't play". It's blizzard, they could care less about people who are more then likely not even playing the game(as was the case, few complaints even came from active users.) hirez will never be as blatant about it, because they don't have so many players they can just throw them away like bliz can.
Tldl variety is nice, but there's nothing sexist happening here.

yifflord
09-21-2016, 05:20 PM
woman make up an incrediblly small minority of gamers

i wasnt gonna stick my nose into this but you're just using false information to justify your opinion. the entertainment software association reported that 41% of gamers are women. that is not "incredibly small"

http://essentialfacts.theesa.com/Essential-Facts-2016.pdf on the third page

VarenWolf
09-21-2016, 05:46 PM
Unfortunately that is for all gaming and certain genre's have less or more. Not that it really matters or bothers me at all. Either way it shouldn't matter how many females are playing.

Miragen
09-21-2016, 05:57 PM
i wasnt gonna stick my nose into this but you're just using false information to justify your opinion. the entertainment software association reported that 41% of gamers are women. that is not "incredibly small"

http://essentialfacts.theesa.com/Essential-Facts-2016.pdf on the third page

When you start counting women who play a few rounds of candy crush each day as a gamers, sure, half the people who play games are gamers.

And I don't care if you want to do that, but to say that because there are a lot of women who play candy crush, we should act as if half the population in any game is female is just ridiculous.

That's like saying that kids who ride around in those little cars are counted as drivers, so we should install kid seats behind the wheel of cars now so we don't discriminate.

I have nothing against adding more females, even when there already is an equal spread of human males and females, but not based on flawed numbers and arguments.

Kulutes
09-21-2016, 06:04 PM
i wasnt gonna stick my nose into this but you're just using false information to justify your opinion. the entertainment software association reported that 41% of gamers are women. that is not "incredibly small"

http://essentialfacts.theesa.com/Essential-Facts-2016.pdf on the third page

That report includes people who play things like Clash of Clans and Candy Crush as gamers. it doesn't really apply here.

yifflord
09-21-2016, 07:08 PM
candy crush and class of clans are free games

the amount of women who purchase games is only 1% lower than the % of women who play games

so

Miragen
09-21-2016, 07:29 PM
candy crush and class of clans are free games

the amount of women who purchase games is only 1% lower than the % of women who play games

so

So? So what?

Trizzdog
09-21-2016, 09:01 PM
tfw we get an ogre or troll or alien that looks like a large breasted human girl with green skin with big teeth or pointy ears or a third boob

My wallet is ready.

scarletbot
09-21-2016, 09:27 PM
You guys are so stuck to the unproven and just wrong idea that hardly any women play video games and bigotted men are the core fanbase. The funny thing is, I count like four of you men that are absolutely angered by the idea of more varied women characters and you're just screaming obsessively as if you're the only people on the forums. So I can see how you'd think there never are women in the gaming communities you're in if they never have a chance to talk with how fast you jump down our throats :D

Miragen
09-22-2016, 05:52 AM
You guys are so stuck to the unproven and just wrong idea that hardly any women play video games and bigotted men are the core fanbase. The funny thing is, I count like four of you men that are absolutely angered by the idea of more varied women characters and you're just screaming obsessively as if you're the only people on the forums. So I can see how you'd think there never are women in the gaming communities you're in if they never have a chance to talk with how fast you jump down our throats :D

I'm not seeing angered men, i mainly see you insulting and generalising men for no reason, accusing them for being toxic even when they are reasonably trying to argue with you.

Kulutes
09-22-2016, 09:59 AM
I'm not seeing angered men, i mainly see you insulting and generalising men for no reason, accusing them for being toxic even when they are reasonably trying to argue with you.

Don't bother, disagreement is offensive to those that follow this sort of ideology. it's a cult.

InfinityOrenge
02-14-2017, 08:01 PM
What about Kinessa, Tyra and Maeve???

They are very different from say Ying, Evie, and Skye.

though yes skye is too sexualized

SandCube
02-14-2017, 08:43 PM
What about Kinessa, Tyra and Maeve???

They are very different from say Ying, Evie, and Skye.

though yes skye is too sexualized
Meave looks like someone from Dragon Balls franchise. That trrible hair, eyebrows and outfit... *shivers*

oomlukas
02-14-2017, 08:59 PM
I just started playing the game and am having a great time with it. That said I was very disappointed by the female character selection. In general I like playing women characters a lot more. It's just more fun to be able to relate to your champion. I like that there are a few women to choose from, but the women are all extremely similar, both with their place in the gameplay and their look/feel.

They're all extremely thin with big tits.
There are no women tanks.
This game has all these interesting monster characters, but none of them are made like the devs intended them to be women.
They've all got these disney princess high-pitched voices.


Honestly, I really hope you guys work on this going forward. I know you don't like being compared to Overwatch, but guess what, you will be. And Overwatch is really successful partly because they work hard to not alienate half the gamer population. So will you put that work in too, or would you prefer to be remembered as the knock-off brand "Overwatch for Men"?

Please just please don't do this.

As a man it is imprinted in my blood to protect my loved ones and provide them with endless opportunities to shine.
For every great man comes the best women to support and motivate him in being the best and wanting to be better.

So in terms of playing as a front liner i provide opportunities (to the roles that matter the most) and protecting ( the roles that matter the most) to slay our opponents so we can rise together in victory. without you the front line is rendered useless.

So your role in this glorious realm is more vital than you think it is please let me take the punch so you can dish them with equal and more devastating blows.

SiderumNocte
02-14-2017, 10:13 PM
What in the actual fuck is this thread.

Okay, more diversity is wonderful. I would love a female tank.



They're all extremely thin with big tits

Nope.

Tyra is rather muscular and probably has the biggest tits.
The rest of the women probably sit around B's & C's as far as cup size, maybe a D.



They've all got these disney princess high-pitched voices.

Again Nope.

Tyra would be my example. Also Skye, Ying's Genie Voice Pack, Cassie's Night Bane.

As far those statistics, they're garbage. Most women in those statistics I believe are around age 40.
They're all basically on Smartphones, that is why that statistic is so high and why the average age of the female "gamers" are above the age of 40.
The statistics that we think of when we think of "gamers" probably are around 15-35% for females.
That is just an observation.
And of course I would welcome more females as I would welcome anyone who wishes to "game".



I like that there are a few women to choose from, but the women are all extremely similar, both with their place in the gameplay and their look/feel.

Again Tyra has different gameplay, she has no movement ability. Everyone has different "Gameplay" for the most part.
Some of those women have more revealing clothes others don't. Skye is probably the most sexualized champion.
The rest cover up a decent amount. And I'm okay if female champions do not show anything. The new Cassie doesn't, neither does Maeve.



Your mothers must be so proud of you . Also thank you both for demonstrating the toxic community that springs up from sexist character design.

Do you know what Sexism is? Things like that require "INTENT".
Is Hi-Rez sexist because they made the characters, why are making thin females considered "Sexist", thin women exist don't they?
Most people are okay with Diversity as stated by numerous people in this thread, however they do not like when you stereotype/(*demonize) which is what you were effectively complaining about.

Whether or not you consider yourself an SJW or whatever if you're going to complain about stereotyping don't do it yourself, that will piss people off more than anything.



Man, I hope Hi-Rez studios is happy that they'll only be keeping a tiny percentage of their new players. With assholes like you guys chasing new players off, it's no wonder women aren't vocal in your ~community~.

I'm actually Positive that they are women who do talk on the forums.



You honestly think there's a small group of "SJWs" that want interesting and creative character design? Or that women don't play games? Have you even seen the roster of Overwatch, or wasn't that a successful enough game?

No, SJWs wanting interesting and creative character design, dare I laugh. I don't think SJWs know what interesting and creative character design is. Maybe one or two.
(Anyone who is like "Isn't that stereotyping", it's a joke, one that is probably true.)

Summary:
- Diversity is WONDERFUL
- We should have a Female Tank by the end of this year
- The Female Champions in this game do look different and play different
- Skye is definitely Sexualized as hell. (And that is okay)
- *Demonizing people will piss them off
- Not all Characters have Big Tits (Except for Tyra and Skye, and that is okay)
- People have different tastes in appearances (This too is okay)
- I'm not trying to be an asshole though you might think I am
- Good Game everyone

OzzyOzzy
02-15-2017, 01:08 AM
Godammit, i had to rummage back through some old posts i did on the exact same topic about this, and edit it here and there. This is my statement of this.

Some quack says: "Let's add a female archetype for the sake of having it"


Like... really?

I'd want a female character that makes sense to the paladins logic, not just chucked in there cause every female type needs to exists in everything. Fern is a hulking man of iron trotting along with heavy armor. Ying is a soothing, kind illusionists that can probably tell the future. Drogoz is a greed-fueled dragon bent on finding a penny on the floor. And Maeve is a cat-burglar that's cosplaying as a cat.

They all make sense as characters cause they seem like characters that fit to the mythos created in the Paladins world. IF Hi-rez can make a sensible female character that LOOKS as if they can fit in Paladins, then go for it. But if they chuck one it cause "every body type needs to be in our game," then just... don't.

Paladins has created each and every character for their fun and awesome character design. They didn't create Mal-Damba to have players impersonate a slim snake-loving person. They didn't create Torvald to have old people play as an old person. And they didn't create Maeve cause 5 year olds can play as a 5 year old.

If they want to add a non-attractive female character to enhance the Paladins lore, then i'm all up for it. But if they just do it "cause we need to appeal to the non-attractive female audience," then the character produce would probably suck, in terms of quality.

Let them do their schlick. Paladins isn't real life, suprisingly. It's fantasy. And so are it's characters.

Valkure
02-15-2017, 02:44 AM
So... the "white male privilege" again.
I am a female. I live in a patriarchy society. I am annoyed that females must be evaluated on the basis of their aspect.
As for now, I've read in this thread:

>> Do you really expect Champions not to be fit? What do you want a fat one?
I don't think Torvald is sexually attractive. Nor Grover. Nor Grohk. Nor Barik. Or Makoa. Pip? Neither Fernando, but I can understand that's personal opinion.
The thing is: all females in the game are designed to be sexually attractive. Males are not.
http://www.sap.mit.edu/content/pdf/male_privilege.pdf read point 26. It has scientifically demonstrated that filling media with sexually attractive women projects objectification on them. Gender violence depends also on this. So, yes, we would like to see more variety.

>>I believe we all talked about it already and we don't want Fat Ugly girls.
wonderful! So, it's perfectly clear that all women must be sexually attractive. But not all men. Why? Women are about 53% of humanity: and we like attractive males. So we should just kill all those who aren't? We should close them in a closet not to see them? This answer is pure stupidity.

>> Real life has plenty of fat ugly chicks to look at. don't need em in videogames too.
real life has plenty of ugly men. And also stupid men. We don't need them in medias too, but instead...

>> Remember your core audience.
This reminds me of a comic of Dork Tower series, when you can see a meeting of a VG company. Point one on the agenda, how to improve Game X: adding nude patch, bigger boobs to the women, etc, etc, etc. Point two on the agenda: why girls don't play games? -_-'
I am a girl, I play since I had a computer. And there are many!
Core audience: let's spread racism and sexism around, just because I want to keep my privileges, who gives a s*** about the vast majority of people in the world! Google "women objectification in media effect", read, and come back.

>> What is far more "toxic" (meaningless buzzword) is when people try to force their idea of what is acceptable when there are already a great many people whom enjoy things as they already are.
sure: slavery has been enjoyed by so many people. Why change? And women: it was so nice when they didn't have right to vote, to go to school or to have a job!
This seems to me the second part of "ethnicity diversity" thread. "I am privileged, I want all my way, others can kill themselves." The fact that you like society as it is, just because society privileges you, while denying rights to other people, is irrelevant. And yes, it starts also with media objectification.

>> that's not diverse enough? or are you so shallow that their appearances are all that matter?
yes, the appearances matter. If not, why are you so strongly defending the idea that you just want hot babies on the battlefield?

>> People that thinks only males want good figure females in game are completely wrong.
so you are REALLY saying that male objectification is at the same level of the female one?
https://seejane.org/wp-content/uploads/Hatton_Trautner_Sexuality_and_Culture.pdf
and this is just the first I've found. Don't joke, please!
Moreover, I had not yet seen another champion doing poses like Skyes. Poses are intended to sexualize or to make the female champion looks "adorable". Male champions poses may be funny, or whatever. Also yesterday: in 2 different games, a stupid idiot commenting on Skye's boobs and bottom. It's a game. It's a damn game: have I to see this sh** also in a game? The everyday life is not enough?
Stop with this sexism, it sucks.

>> But I'd also add there are not any female healers at all
Ying.
Still, the point here is not "a female for each role", but "a female NOT SEXUALIZED", in whatever role you want. An old lady? An athlete? An ugly woman. Whatever. But not a sexualized character. Not another.


>> The sexualisation and homogenisation of women never was an argument ad nauseam, but rather an unflattering relic from a more uncivilised age
yeah, you're right. http://everydaysexism.com/ have fun. And this is just ONE site. There are TONS.

>> True, but there is no reason to use that as an excuse for pushing trough an agenda that says woman are being objectified when it isn't the case here.
not only you are deny reality, but, again, read some scientific reports, from ONU, maybe. But no, "I don't see sexism (because I am a male), so there is not sexism". As in the "ethnicity diversity" thread. "I am white, so there's no racism, because I've never experienced it". Surprise: you don't see sexism because you are a male!

>> and forcing females to meet a quota
s/he's asking for not sexualized females, not to get a quota ;-)

>> I'm not seeing angered men, i mainly see you insulting and generalising men for no reason, accusing them for being toxic even when they are reasonably trying to argue with you.
oh, no, which angry man? Just men who have decided that, since they don't see sexism, sexism doesn't exist.
That sounds as white people assuring blacks that racism doesn't exist because they had never experienced... Not angry, they just directly think others are stupid.

>> As a man it is imprinted in my blood to protect my loved ones and provide them with endless opportunities to shine.
For every great man comes the best women to support and motivate him in being the best and wanting to be better.
it's not genetics, it's gendered society -_-' And if a woman doesn't want to support you and being protected by you, you can take all your "gendered society imprinting" and trash them. We don't have to live to a standard you enjoy.


************
Tired or reading all the sh** here. Sexism exists (like many of you have just proven). One of the way it is perpetrated it's by female objectification in media. Deal with it. You can decide: "let's change something, for the sake of all", or "who cares? I want to keep my privileges". You can do whatever. In the second case, you are and you will remain a chauvinist.

The thing is: we can improve the game also by introducing not sexualized female characters and creating an environment where also female players can feel at ease. And reading all evening sexual harassment due to some PIXELS!!!, is not feeling at ease. "It's a joke!". Yeah, try it on your skin when you are walking home alone from job. When you are scared because you don't know if the guy, there, is just the same idiot who feels empowered by harassing girls on the street, or someone with worse thoughts. I repeat: if you have never experienced sexism, you can't understand, you just have to believe to people who has.
I don't like this sh** in games. That's the reason why many girls don't play: the extreme sexism of games communities.

I would not read this thread anymore: I am really loosing hope in the world, at the moment. This makes me sick and I am starting to consider leaving the game. But I like to play. Like many other girls in the world. Oh, no, sorry, girls don't play games just because it's something written in the double X chromosome... [sarcasm, here]

HiRez, you can do something to make this game "female-friendly", a place where sexism and sexual harassment is not tolerate. A place where every girl can feel at ease, because it is not not-so-subtlety suggested that women have value only if they are sexually attractive (and yes, I've read comments like this even on Maeve T_T ). Please, take this into consideration. Thanks.

oomlukas
02-15-2017, 03:48 AM
it's not genetics, it's gendered society

no its not its Values


And if a woman doesn't want to support you and being protected by you, you can take all your "gendered society imprinting" and trash them

Want or dont want ill follow my values. like taking a blade to a chest for defending a lady i dont know. sleeping in jail for a lady i dont know.

Branzer
02-15-2017, 04:37 AM
Summary of OP's thread - I saw an attractive Skye/Cassie, which made me uncomfortable due to my insecurities. Plz add less attractive women in Paladins so we "less good looking ladies" feel better about ourselves.
2017 and people still find the stupidest reason to be offended. IN A VIDEO GAME.
Zarya in Overwatch was a typical SJW-move, since barely any women (even bodybuilders) have that kind of muscle mass. Men are expected to be men, strong leaders with protective roles. Women are more elegant and less masculine. This doesnt invalidate women in any way.

Aleg2012
02-15-2017, 06:06 AM
Paladins as a general is a fantasy game, so there is no need for realism. Anyway, the characters are structured to balance and to show why they are covering their role: A massive Mecha robot that can shield? Definitely a tank. A golem with bombs? You immediately think it is a damage. Most healers are obvious. Why should i have a girl, normally associated with the idea of beauty and feminine grace, in a massive bloody robot suit or throwing nukes at people?

What is the point, anyway, of genderising a game? It is just a game, there is no such thing as "You would not touch me cause im a girl", as it is so satisfying to kill Maeve while she is jumping around.

MiraKabal
02-15-2017, 04:56 PM
Eh, I'm a guy and I prefer to play woman characters to be honest. Thing is, though, I leave the creative decisions to Hi-rez. It's their game, their creative vision, and ultimately their decision on what their characters should be. I don't get why people act like a game isn't allowed to have a character they don't like, or must have characters that represent their ideological views. Every game represents the creative vision of the studio that made it, not yours nor mine. If you don't find a game representing your ideological views then perhaps you should find another game that does, rather than trying to force your own creative vision on something you did not create.

MiraKabal
02-15-2017, 05:05 PM
Another thing that grinds my gears so to speak; what is this whole 'I can't relate to my character unless it's the same gender, race, and body type as me' thing that is all the rage nowadays? have we really become so imaginatively inept that we need an exact replica of ourselfs ingame to relate?

OzzyOzzy
02-15-2017, 06:55 PM
Another thing that grinds my gears so to speak; what is this whole 'I can't relate to my character unless it's the same gender, race, and body type as me' thing that is all the rage nowadays? have we really become so imaginatively inept that we need an exact replica of ourselfs ingame to relate?

Its to make the highly sensetive, highly unintellgent players feel that they are playing in the game world themselves. That they "fit it," unlike in real life.

And hence why i play Paladins, too! I can finally live the life of being a wingless, red dragon that shoots rockets and one-shot punches people! Cause i'm a dragon in real life, too!

benevapwnz
02-15-2017, 07:25 PM
I mean, you all complain that adding specific types of character will pander to a certain audience, but keep forgetting that games in general create their characters obviously to pander to men. It's not even an opinion, it's a fact, and it's called marketing.

Now, pandering to specific audiences is only ok when you belong to said audience?

ThatOthell159
02-15-2017, 08:27 PM
I'm not seeing angered men, i mainly see you insulting and generalising men for no reason, accusing them for being toxic even when they are reasonably trying to argue with you.

This is why God gave us conservative women. AKA women who judge a person based on the person itself but not ethnicity/race/sex/gender etc etc etc.


Back on topic: I don't care who the devs create next in the game as long as it is original and fun to play. I am a simple man.

benevapwnz
02-15-2017, 08:44 PM
Back on topic: I don't care who the devs create next in the game as long as it is original and fun to play. I am a simple man.

Well then it shouldn't matter to you what people suggest for new champions, should it?

ThatOthell159
02-15-2017, 09:22 PM
Well then it shouldn't matter to you what people suggest for new champions, should it?

No it doesn't matter to me, I'm not a game dev for HiRez.


Just stating my opinion.

Gordre
02-15-2017, 09:37 PM
So... the "white male privilege" again.
I am a female. I live in a patriarchy society. I am annoyed that females must be evaluated on the basis of their aspect.
As for now, I've read in this thread:

>> Do you really expect Champions not to be fit? What do you want a fat one?
I don't think Torvald is sexually attractive. Nor Grover. Nor Grohk. Nor Barik. Or Makoa. Pip? Neither Fernando, but I can understand that's personal opinion.
The thing is: all females in the game are designed to be sexually attractive. Males are not.
http://www.sap.mit.edu/content/pdf/male_privilege.pdf read point 26. It has scientifically demonstrated that filling media with sexually attractive women projects objectification on them. Gender violence depends also on this. So, yes, we would like to see more variety.

>>I believe we all talked about it already and we don't want Fat Ugly girls.
wonderful! So, it's perfectly clear that all women must be sexually attractive. But not all men. Why? Women are about 53% of humanity: and we like attractive males. So we should just kill all those who aren't? We should close them in a closet not to see them? This answer is pure stupidity.

>> Real life has plenty of fat ugly chicks to look at. don't need em in videogames too.
real life has plenty of ugly men. And also stupid men. We don't need them in medias too, but instead...

>> Remember your core audience.
This reminds me of a comic of Dork Tower series, when you can see a meeting of a VG company. Point one on the agenda, how to improve Game X: adding nude patch, bigger boobs to the women, etc, etc, etc. Point two on the agenda: why girls don't play games? -_-'
I am a girl, I play since I had a computer. And there are many!
Core audience: let's spread racism and sexism around, just because I want to keep my privileges, who gives a s*** about the vast majority of people in the world! Google "women objectification in media effect", read, and come back.

>> What is far more "toxic" (meaningless buzzword) is when people try to force their idea of what is acceptable when there are already a great many people whom enjoy things as they already are.
sure: slavery has been enjoyed by so many people. Why change? And women: it was so nice when they didn't have right to vote, to go to school or to have a job!
This seems to me the second part of "ethnicity diversity" thread. "I am privileged, I want all my way, others can kill themselves." The fact that you like society as it is, just because society privileges you, while denying rights to other people, is irrelevant. And yes, it starts also with media objectification.

>> that's not diverse enough? or are you so shallow that their appearances are all that matter?
yes, the appearances matter. If not, why are you so strongly defending the idea that you just want hot babies on the battlefield?

>> People that thinks only males want good figure females in game are completely wrong.
so you are REALLY saying that male objectification is at the same level of the female one?
https://seejane.org/wp-content/uploads/Hatton_Trautner_Sexuality_and_Culture.pdf
and this is just the first I've found. Don't joke, please!
Moreover, I had not yet seen another champion doing poses like Skyes. Poses are intended to sexualize or to make the female champion looks "adorable". Male champions poses may be funny, or whatever. Also yesterday: in 2 different games, a stupid idiot commenting on Skye's boobs and bottom. It's a game. It's a damn game: have I to see this sh** also in a game? The everyday life is not enough?
Stop with this sexism, it sucks.

>> But I'd also add there are not any female healers at all
Ying.
Still, the point here is not "a female for each role", but "a female NOT SEXUALIZED", in whatever role you want. An old lady? An athlete? An ugly woman. Whatever. But not a sexualized character. Not another.


>> The sexualisation and homogenisation of women never was an argument ad nauseam, but rather an unflattering relic from a more uncivilised age
yeah, you're right. http://everydaysexism.com/ have fun. And this is just ONE site. There are TONS.

>> True, but there is no reason to use that as an excuse for pushing trough an agenda that says woman are being objectified when it isn't the case here.
not only you are deny reality, but, again, read some scientific reports, from ONU, maybe. But no, "I don't see sexism (because I am a male), so there is not sexism". As in the "ethnicity diversity" thread. "I am white, so there's no racism, because I've never experienced it". Surprise: you don't see sexism because you are a male!

>> and forcing females to meet a quota
s/he's asking for not sexualized females, not to get a quota ;-)

>> I'm not seeing angered men, i mainly see you insulting and generalising men for no reason, accusing them for being toxic even when they are reasonably trying to argue with you.
oh, no, which angry man? Just men who have decided that, since they don't see sexism, sexism doesn't exist.
That sounds as white people assuring blacks that racism doesn't exist because they had never experienced... Not angry, they just directly think others are stupid.

>> As a man it is imprinted in my blood to protect my loved ones and provide them with endless opportunities to shine.
For every great man comes the best women to support and motivate him in being the best and wanting to be better.
it's not genetics, it's gendered society -_-' And if a woman doesn't want to support you and being protected by you, you can take all your "gendered society imprinting" and trash them. We don't have to live to a standard you enjoy.


************
Tired or reading all the sh** here. Sexism exists (like many of you have just proven). One of the way it is perpetrated it's by female objectification in media. Deal with it. You can decide: "let's change something, for the sake of all", or "who cares? I want to keep my privileges". You can do whatever. In the second case, you are and you will remain a chauvinist.

The thing is: we can improve the game also by introducing not sexualized female characters and creating an environment where also female players can feel at ease. And reading all evening sexual harassment due to some PIXELS!!!, is not feeling at ease. "It's a joke!". Yeah, try it on your skin when you are walking home alone from job. When you are scared because you don't know if the guy, there, is just the same idiot who feels empowered by harassing girls on the street, or someone with worse thoughts. I repeat: if you have never experienced sexism, you can't understand, you just have to believe to people who has.
I don't like this sh** in games. That's the reason why many girls don't play: the extreme sexism of games communities.

I would not read this thread anymore: I am really loosing hope in the world, at the moment. This makes me sick and I am starting to consider leaving the game. But I like to play. Like many other girls in the world. Oh, no, sorry, girls don't play games just because it's something written in the double X chromosome... [sarcasm, here]

HiRez, you can do something to make this game "female-friendly", a place where sexism and sexual harassment is not tolerate. A place where every girl can feel at ease, because it is not not-so-subtlety suggested that women have value only if they are sexually attractive (and yes, I've read comments like this even on Maeve T_T ). Please, take this into consideration. Thanks.

I think that post shows why we need more non-sexualized females.


I mean, you all complain that adding specific types of character will pander to a certain audience, but keep forgetting that games in general create their characters obviously to pander to men. It's not even an opinion, it's a fact, and it's called marketing.

Now, pandering to specific audiences is only ok when you belong to said audience?

Oh yeah, I would like to know also.

-------------------
Maeve's design was an improvement in my opinion. I laughed a lot when some people were crying about she having no boobs when she was first presented in the OB43 preview stream.

MiraKabal
02-16-2017, 05:28 AM
I would not read this thread anymore: I am really loosing hope in the world, at the moment. This makes me sick and I am starting to consider leaving the game. But I like to play. Like many other girls in the world. Oh, no, sorry, girls don't play games just because it's something written in the double X chromosome... [sarcasm, here]

HiRez, you can do something to make this game "female-friendly", a place where sexism and sexual harassment is not tolerate. A place where every girl can feel at ease, because it is not not-so-subtlety suggested that women have value only if they are sexually attractive (and yes, I've read comments like this even on Maeve T_T ). Please, take this into consideration. Thanks.

See the thing is, if you really feel this strongly about Paladins' female characters then I really do hope that Hi-rez oblidges and gives you whatever diverse female characters you want. What I'm getting at, and please excuse my frankness, is that you are taking a game way too seriously for your own good, with a great deal of self projection. Having mostly pretty women characters does not equate to sexism and sexual harrassment, that is a big leap of logic on your part. Also, having more varied female characters in Paladins will not negate sexism and sexual harrassment in Paladins or in your own community. Sexism is a deeply rooted societal issue that goes way beyond the realm of video gaming. Your objection to the lack of variety in women characters may result in Hi-rez giving you a couple of diverse women characters, but would that really help in mitigating real sexism? Be realistic, that would only be political pandering to avoid a media backlash.

Again, don't get me wrong, i'm not against everyone being comfortable playing this game, but I take issue with you and others attaching such idelogical value to a video game. I mean i'm a Middle-eastern guy, and as you may well be aware, we are not represented in Paladins, even sha Lin, who is clearly a stereotypical middle eastern guy in design was given a chinese name. But does that mean that I should take offense and assume that this is motivated by a racist agenda? obiously not, because I don't look for validation in a freaking video game, neither do I view a video game as a one-for-one representation of society and its values.

Branzer
02-16-2017, 07:51 AM
Sexism is a deeply rooted societal issue that goes way beyond the realm of video gaming. Your objection to the lack of variety in women characters may result in Hi-rez giving you a couple of diverse women characters, but would that really help in mitigating real sexism? Be realistic, that would only be political pandering to avoid a media backlash.
You should put this in your short quote on the profile, so everyone can read it.

does that mean that I should take offense and assume that this is motivated by a racist agenda? obiously not, because I don't look for validation in a freaking video game, neither do I view a video game as a one-for-one representation of society and its values.
Can we make this a loading screen message? For every SJW offended that the game doesn't contain x,y,z type of characters?

Spacey1
02-16-2017, 08:20 AM
Man, this thread didn't even get off of page 1 before the alt-righters showed up to scream "SJW SJW SJW!" at the OP for suggesting that female characters should be created with more in mind than fat alt-right virgins who want to jerk off to pixels in mommy's basement ... lmao

MiraKabal
02-16-2017, 09:01 AM
Man, this thread didn't even get off of page 1 before the alt-righters showed up to scream "SJW SJW SJW!" at the OP for suggesting that female characters should be created with more in mind than fat alt-right virgins who want to jerk off to pixels in mommy's basement ... lmao

See, OP, now this is sexism and is exactly the type of discourse that contributes to the toxicity of any discussion of gender representation in video games. Bemoaning the stereotyping of women in video games while at the same time stereotyping male gamers.

Branzer
02-16-2017, 09:17 AM
Man, this thread didn't even get off of page 1 before the alt-righters showed up to scream "SJW SJW SJW!" at the OP for suggesting that female characters should be created with more in mind than fat alt-right virgins who want to jerk off to pixels in mommy's basement ... lmao
So if I like well built, fit women therefore I must be a virgin living in a basement? LOGIC. How can you be so shallow?

Your mothers must be so proud of you :rolleyes:. Also thank you both for demonstrating the toxic community that springs up from sexist character design.
Whats the point of this? You saw a couple of attractive ladies in-game..... and it bothers you? Lets hear your suggestion on that how women should look like since being good looking is apparently sexist.

Gordre
02-16-2017, 09:36 AM
I never understand why when someone suggest more of a type of character he/she is automatically a 'offended SJW'. It's a suggestion from someone who are missing things that would make the game better for them, so they come here to suggest and argument why they would like that. Of course it depends on Hi-Rez decision to make it true or not, but players need to be able to present their thoughts so Hi-Rez may think about it.

I understood Valkure's point about having more non-sexualized females to remember community females don't need to fit in what society says it's beautiful or attractive to be there and be awesome. Sexist members would still exist, but the game would be more friendly for girls. It's not about playing with the one you most identifies with based on appearance, but it's more like you feel much better when there's one that seems more like you and he/she is in the game's environment.

The issue here is that men in this game can be whatever. Women were attractive human/elf until Maeve came up and surprised me they actually made a female character that is not a young girl who fits in the requirements of what is considered pretty and attractive. I would like to see more women champions causing reactions like those that happened with Maeve, so maybe we can have a game showing women can be great without having to fit the established requirements of prettiness and attractiveness...

Spacey1
02-16-2017, 10:20 AM
See, OP, now this is sexism and is exactly the type of discourse that contributes to the toxicity of any discussion of gender representation in video games. Bemoaning the stereotyping of women in video games while at the same time stereotyping male gamers.

LOL awwww do you need your safe space now? Feeling triggered? Need me to be more PC and CARE about how YOU feel and how my words and actions may affect you, even if I am not a member of the group I am belittling and mistreating?

But doesn't that make you an SJW? xD

benevapwnz
02-16-2017, 11:11 AM
LOL awwww do you need your safe space now? Feeling triggered? Need me to be more PC and CARE about how YOU feel and how my words and actions may affect you, even if I am not a member of the group I am belittling and mistreating?

But doesn't that make you an SJW? xD

damn that sick burn
someone call Evie

RozenDERher
02-16-2017, 05:50 PM
People who quoted the OP points and brought Tyra and maeve as examples that the OP was "exagerating" should be ashamed of yourselves...

Female champions on paladins designwise were all very samey. Clearly Hi-rez is aware of that issue though, cause they've taken steps to fix it (tyra and maeve)

tyra is a bigger and bulkier female (although I wouldn't mind 10% bulkier, but is something) that isnt defined by her sexiness and her attire seems more fit for hunting that for dates. (even if she is not ugly at all)

Maeve is a smaller grumpier, plain looking gal with slightly feline face and again her outfit is quite plain and functional, instead of sex appeal. (in this case plain is actually a great choice, considering how she is the kind of hero that doesnt want unintended attention)

They in fact changed cassie sexy outfit for something way more adventurous that syncs better with her kinda noble and a little naive adventurous princess vibe her character gives me, and when they created a skin for her, instead of default sexy (like skye or evie) they went full badass.

Plus they added a kinda sexy male in sha lin (is fernando even sexy? he feels a little like a tryhard)

Still, the male proportions tend to be exaggerated while female proportons tend to stay more in a margin, but it kinda compensates that male porportions arent as exagerated as in overwatch. still a more exagerated female proportions, and female not humans (elves don't count, at least dwarves have way different bodybuilds than elves/human) so you know, if they create something non human, its gender isnt male just becasue male is the "default".

Is not that a little sexy is and fanservicey is bad, and yeah, it sells, but i hope they:
a: keep it in characters that make sense like Skye (with her whole seductress, pin-up persona that have an interesting concept of seen/unseen), Evie (since she is some kind of "bad, crazy chick suicide girl" harley quinn with even some burlesque elements). and Ying i guess? (yeah, she have the impression of kinda naive innocent girl but since she is an illusionist a more dual focus could work)
b: not exclusive aimed to male hetero.
c: something the character in question wouldn't mind going to battle in.

All in all, even with the sexism of some users of the forum it does looks like Hi-rez isnt unaware of the issue, and are perfectly happy with going out of confort zones. as a new player the character that I more enjoy designwise are Maldamba, tyra, torovald and maeve, so im optimist.

I hope that they get a little more bold though. (a dwarf female frontliner with elemental earth powers and a warhammer, you could get inspiration from Avatar's Toph and Magda from http://guildedage.net/, or a haggard ghost of revenge, or a female bulky ciclops, or a female more serpentine and earth oriented Drogoz (reptilian and boobs dont make sense, so please dont put her boobs) or a hyena/gnoll kind of werebeast (similar to charr from guildwars) or a crone fire witch with inspiration of darksouls izalith witches(would make an interesting paralel to evie).... etc etc etc... ideas for unique and interesting female characters are a everywhere. so they can get bold and certainly hope they do.

benevapwnz
02-16-2017, 06:34 PM
I hope that they get a little more bold though. (a dwarf female frontliner with elemental earth powers and a warhammer, you could get inspiration from Avatar's Toph and Magda from http://guildedage.net/, or a haggard ghost of revenge, or a female bulky ciclops, or a female more serpentine and earth oriented Drogoz (reptilian and boobs dont make sense, so please dont put her boobs) or a hyena/gnoll kind of werebeast (similar to charr from guildwars) or a crone fire witch with inspiration of darksouls izalith witches(would make an interesting paralel to evie).... etc etc etc... ideas for unique and interesting female characters are a everywhere. so they can get bold and certainly hope they do.

You just changed my headcanon about what will "Barrier Tank" look like. Female dwarf, damn yea.

I basically agree with your whole post. There are some arguments I've seen here in the thread that just baffles me. I've already talked about the "pandering to a certain audience" thing, but this one caught my attention:

"We don't want _ugly chicks_ in the game, is that wrong?"
Well, no. Although the definition of beauty is subjective and that's a known fact. What you may find attractive might not be for the person standing right next you. Ever heard the expression "beauty is in the eye of the beholder"?
And I MUST point out that FEMALE "ugly" characters are completely out of line, and SHOULD NOT be introduced, becaus that's pandering to specific audiences!!!!! But I mean, I'm sure you all find Grohk, Barik and Torvald to be handsome.
The thing is: male characters in media tend to be depicted as strong and powerful but their appearance is not a problem. Female characters yes, can be represented as powerful, this you can allow, as long as she's hot. I mean, you don't want to play your videogames and see some ugly fat chicks amirite?

And it all comes back to this: because videogames are made to please men. And you all get defensive, not because you "don't want SJW BS" on your games. You get defensive because there are women daring to challenge your comfort zone of privilege. Newsflash: it's 2017. Men don't dominate the world, neither do they dominate videogame industry. We're talking about Hi-Rez people, we all know there's plenty of women working there. And the percentage of how many women play videogames is completely irrelevant.

And I say all that as a man.

Branzer
02-16-2017, 07:13 PM
And it all comes back to this: because videogames are made to please men. And you all get defensive, not because you "don't want SJW BS" on your games. You get defensive because there are women daring to challenge your comfort zone of privilege.
I didnt know privilege existed in fking VIDEO games that in no way depict modern society. I ask again since none of you cucks answer my question - you saw an attractive gal in-game and got offended? For what exactly? She will appeal to men. So what? There are well built champ's for the girls. God forbid us guys like something attractive.
Newsflash: it's 2017. Men don't dominate the world, neither do they dominate videogame industry.
But they consist the majority of gamers. Facebook apps, Android games, and "some" of the PC titles thats where the female quota is coming from. PC Developers notice this. So if they create something that appeals to men in general, dont get all offended 2016 style.

And I say all that as a man
Yea we needed to know that, cuz us other men disrespect women on a daily basis for giggles.

OzzyOzzy
02-16-2017, 07:23 PM
Hi Rez has so far made 22 characters, and all of them fit in the Paladins theme and tone. All the females fit their part, and so do all the males. Buck is a hulking mammoth of a man, which reflects his brute gameplay. Ying is a slender, attractive woman that doesn't seem battle-worthy. Hence she is classified in support (She can still pull off damage through magical means). Fernando is a big knight in shining armor that can take a cannonball to the crotch, and that is how he is in-game. And Cassie is a well-built, all around lady with some sex appeal, to show she is agile, and at the same time fit enough to lift a bow (Crossbow, now).

And they all work. They all fit in the fantasy setting Paladins is set in. They all work in their class category and gameplay.

So i said this once, and i'll say it again and again: Paladins will make the character you wish for eventually. But their value more creativity than pandering. They make the champions they favor, not the champions someone tells them to. And to this day, nearly all champions have been great additions (save for balancing issues, but we're talking about appearances right now)

Your character will come. Just be patient. And don't be a dick about wanting it. Like a lot of people in this thread are.

benevapwnz
02-16-2017, 07:38 PM
I didnt know privilege existed in fking VIDEO games that in no way depict modern society. I ask again since none of you cucks answer my question - you saw an attractive gal in-game and got offended? For what exactly? She will appeal to men. So what? There are well built champ's for the girls. God forbid us guys like something attractive.

Well, guess what: videogames are an industry, the history going on inside them might not be true, but SURPRISE: they are a powerful industry in the recent generation and their existence has social and economical impact!!!! Baffling, isn't it? I would highly advise you to study sociology.

And I'm sorry, I did not said I was offended by sexy female characters in the game. They can exist, sure. And o boy, I'm gonna love throw this around, but "as long as their sexiness is justified by their personality", of course.
Yes, there are well built men, but not all of them are and that is to be the point you somehow failed to understand or deliberately ignore. Because women being hot is a rule, when it's not for men. It's obligatory. And when that doesn't happen, i.e. Maeve, you can expect backlash.


But they consist the majority of gamers. Facebook apps, Android games, and "some" of the PC titles thats where the female quota is coming from. PC Developers notice this. So if they create something that appeals to men in general, dont get all offended 2016 style.

The thing is that when you're a smart company (as Blizzard, and hopefully Hi-Rez if we keep seeing the way they're going with the last few champs), you will have social awareness and a vision of the big picture. Women might not consist the majority of gaming community yet, but that's exactly because the gaming community was aiming to reach out for men from the get-go. The reason why women are not more present is because of patriarchal behaviour and an ideology that said that "women should be playing with dolls instead of videogames". Society is responsible for women not being active in the gaming community, that's not hard to understand.

But if you're smart, you'll realize that patriarchy is slowly crumbling down and women are occupying the spaces that they want. And now they want to be a part of the gaming community. And smart companies are gonna listen to what women have to say on the subject.

I mean, come on, the person baiscally responsible for programming being able to exist was a woman, Ada Lovelace. You could not be playing videogames today if it wasn't for a woman. Think about it.


Yea we needed to know that, cuz us other men disrespect women on a daily basis for giggles.

Sadly you do. Maybe not for giggles, but even when you don't mean to, your actions in some way or another will be harmful to women because that's a innate behaviour that can only be changed when you admit it instead of going on defensive and trying to get yourself off the hook.

OzzyOzzy
02-16-2017, 07:47 PM
The thing is that when you're a smart company (as Blizzard, and hopefully Hi-Rez if we keep seeing the way they're going with the last few champs), you will have social awareness and a vision of the big picture. Women might not consist the majority of gaming community yet, but that's exactly because the gaming community was aiming to reach out for men from the get-go. The reason why women are not more present is because of patriarchal behaviour and an ideology that said that "women should be playing with dolls instead of videogames". Society is responsible for women not being active in the gaming community, that's not hard to understand.

But if you're smart, you'll realize that patriarchy is slowly crumbling down and women are occupying the spaces that they want. And now they want to be a part of the gaming community. And smart companies are gonna listen to what women have to say on the subject.

This just sounds like a bunch of words put together to make you sound more intellgient and reasonable. Right...

Look. Not all women wants to play a game cause they have a character in it that looks like them. They play it cause it was fun.

A lot of people played Paladins because it was fun. Some will come to play as a character they relate to (like me and Drogoz). But most come for the enjoyment.

Again, Paladins will make characters to their liking. Not to someone elses. Your character will come. They just need to find a way to make them fit in the fantasy realm and setting. And look awesome.

ThatOthell159
02-16-2017, 07:52 PM
LOL awwww do you need your safe space now? Feeling triggered? Need me to be more PC and CARE about how YOU feel and how my words and actions may affect you, even if I am not a member of the group I am belittling and mistreating?

But doesn't that make you an SJW? xD

Dude that guy was just stating his opinion why you gotta attack him like that?

benevapwnz
02-16-2017, 07:54 PM
This just sounds like a bunch of words put together to make you sound more intellgient and reasonable. Right...

Look. Not all women wants to play a game cause they have a character in it that looks like them. They play it cause it was fun.

A lot of people played Paladins because it was fun. Some will come to play as a character they relate to (like me and Drogoz). But most come for the enjoyment.

Again, Paladins will make characters to their liking. Not to someone elses. Your character will come. They just need to find a way to make them fit in the fantasy realm and setting. And look awesome.

Don't blame me if you couldn't understand it. Perhaps reading a little bit of Simone de Beauvoir might help?

Yet you are speaking in the name of those women. I am here standing by the opinion of a woman, a lot of women actually, in the subject of how games impact them.

It's reasonable to allow those women to speak for themselves without saying they are overreacting on something that does not affect you at all.

If you are happy with how it's going, good for you. Let other be people be as well, understand them, give them your support. Empathy is not going to hurt you.
If you so firmly believe they'll get what they want, don't try to diminish while they don't. It sets a pattern of behaviour that will be spread.

SiderumNocte
02-16-2017, 08:45 PM
Must I really respond again...Yes I must.

First of all I'm really starting to think hardly anyone knows what Sexism really is.
Making a body type is not sexist.
Creating thin/skinny women with big breasts is not sexist by any means.

A few people think having "Attractive" women in games is sexist and panders to males.
Now do "Attractive" women in ads and such attract males to games, Yes with a caveat.

Point One is that lesbians exist and who is to say they are also not attracted to these kinds of ads.
After all lesbians are attracted to women.

Second Point is that not all males will go to a game just because TITS!
There is also a point that there is a difference in the degree of which an "attractive" women will be used in an add.
For Example You could have a thin/skinny women with big breasts that is essentially wearing nothing but a metal bikini for a fantasy game.
On the other hand you could have the same exact women who is covered.

Now this follows the same rule as "Attractive" Female Youtubers and Streamers, and that is being a "Attractive" female will more than likely get more clicks than if that person was a man.
However, this does not mean people will subscribe, follow, etc.
This also the same rule for ads. Clicks does not mean conversion to buying a game or playing a game.
This is because most people will play a Game because they like said Game.

Ads are used to get peoples attention. This is the sole purpose of ads.
And the majority of people who play games will be males. So ads that get male attention are fine.
Just like how most Mobile game ads will "pander" to 40 year old women. It just is the market. Not Sexism, just the Market.
"Know your audience"

Another point is that not every woman cares whether they see a scantily clad woman.
It also follows that some men who will be gay will not care for scantily clad women.
So to say having ads that feature "Attractive" Women is just for men is wrong as this does not account for the difference in opinions of the lesbian women or gay men.
Ads will target a core audience, but not mean it exclusively targets said core audience.
Final Point this is not Sexist nor Sexism.



The thing is: all females in the game are designed to be sexually attractive. Males are not.


I disagree somewhat.
What is sexually attractive is subjective. Some men don't care for thin/skinny women and prefer "bigger" women and vice versa, Same with Women.
And even if it were true, there is nothing wrong with that.
I along with many other people in this thread have said Diversity is fine.
We all basically welcome Diversity in men, in women, in champion appearances and in gameplay.



Moreover, I had not yet seen another champion doing poses like Skyes. Poses are intended to sexualize or to make the female champion looks "adorable". Male champions poses may be funny, or whatever. Also yesterday: in 2 different games, a stupid idiot commenting on Skye's boobs and bottom. It's a game. It's a damn game: have I to see this sh** also in a game? The everyday life is not enough?
Stop with this sexism, it sucks.


Listen, some people are stupid and have little to no manners.
If your life is riddled with that kind of shit, that absolutely sucks.
And by the Shit I mean getting groped and stuff.
Getting cat called and things like that, I can understand how someone would get sick of that.
However someone making a comment on a womans breast and ass is not sexism, just like a woman making a comment on a guys dick or ass or pecks, etc.
Now in all fairness, it would be hard to comment on a male characters bulge.



- True, but there is no reason to use that as an excuse for pushing trough an agenda that says woman are being objectified when it isn't the case here.

not only you are deny reality, but, again, read some scientific reports, from ONU, maybe. But no, "I don't see sexism (because I am a male), so there is not sexism". As in the "ethnicity diversity" thread. "I am white, so there's no racism, because I've never experienced it". Surprise: you don't see sexism because you are a male!


I actually have the biggest issue right here.
Just because you are a woman does not mean you experience sexism same goes for racism.
The United States has laws that benefit women quite a-lot, and has laws that could be seen as sexist towards men.

For Example:
In the United States if you are 18 and a citizen you can vote once you register, unless you are a man.
You may have heard of the Selective Service System or not.

Link : https://www.sss.gov/Registration/Why-Register

Women are exempt because I believe when this was decided women could not serve on frontlines.
Now that women can serve on the frontlines this may change, doubt it would because women of the SJW and some Feminist kind would object to it. Not to mention Divorce court and custody laws heavily favor women.

I believe the First Mandatory draft was World War I. Drafts such of these were suppose to illegal and are unconstitutional as it violates our personal liberties. We have the Liberty to decide what we want to do and what we don't want to. This includes serving in the military. Now this issue is far more complex that I will go into on this thread.

My point is this: This is Sexism, it's systemic oppression. When there is no choice is usually when you can tell.
Women couldn't Vote: Sexist. People would say that. I probably wouldn't disagree.

Any way let's move on.




Maeve's design was an improvement in my opinion. I laughed a lot when some people were crying about she having no boobs when she was first presented in the OB43 preview stream.


That would be a extremely small percent of people.
Sexism, Racism does exist, just not to the degree we are told it is.
It is uncommon. Some people will experience sexism or racism much more than others.
To the point above this one, experiences can be anecdotal which can skew perceptions of things.



Man, this thread didn't even get off of page 1 before the alt-righters showed up to scream "SJW SJW SJW!" at the OP for suggesting that female characters should be created with more in mind than fat alt-right virgins who want to jerk off to pixels in mommy's basement ... lmao


Trolling, Lol?
Alt-Right is also a really small group



People who quoted the OP points and brought Tyra and maeve as examples that the OP was "exagerating" should be ashamed of yourselves...


Are you the person who sent me that reputation message?
Also no Tyra and Maeve are completely valid, just like that message was also somewhat valid.



Newsflash: it's 2017. Men don't dominate the world, neither do they dominate videogame industry.


Men do dominate the video game industry (in terms of who buys and plays them), if women did then ads would be more Topless Men with six/eight packs.
Please don't bring in that stupid statistic (http://www.sap.mit.edu/content/pdf/male_privilege.pdf) I've stated in my last post why this a garbage statistic.



Women might not consist the majority of gaming community yet, but that's exactly because the gaming community was aiming to reach out for men from the get-go. The reason why women are not more present is because of patriarchal behaviour and an ideology that said that "women should be playing with dolls instead of videogames". Society is responsible for women not being active in the gaming community, that's not hard to understand.


Nope. Actually gaming was advertised as a Family activity, things did change, but nothing said women couldn't play.



- Yea we needed to know that, cuz us other men disrespect women on a daily basis for giggles.

Sadly you do. Maybe not for giggles, but even when you don't mean to, your actions in some way or another will be harmful to women because that's a innate behaviour that can only be changed when you admit it instead of going on defensive and trying to get yourself off the hook.


Nope. That's all.



Your character will come. Just be patient. And don't be a dick about wanting it. Like a lot of people in this thread are.


Can Agree. We still have like 13 more champions to go so I'm sure by 2018 the champion roster will be extremely diverse. Assuming Hi-Rez doesn't screw it up.

Not all women agree, Not all men agree.
Most women don't care, Most men don't care.
I really don't care as long as the game is fun.

Squantz93
02-16-2017, 09:17 PM
Jeez, am I the only sane and not misogynistic guy here? While I love looking at Skye and Tyra, I completely agree that there needs to be more diversity between female characters. And as OP said in their first post, Overwatch does a great job doing this. Zarya is a fantastic example of a female character who isn't really sexy, but also isn't a disgusting fat slob. I'm sure in time Hi-Rez will add better female diversity. Unless the company is run by insecure males the ones in this thread! haha

RozenDERher
02-16-2017, 10:22 PM
Dude that guy was just stating his opinion why you gotta attack him like that?

maybe he was feeling triggered?

okey, i originally wanted to quote post by post, but i will keep it quick.

Branzer, your post have been a constant barrage of whine and agresiveness that can be sumed in this:
You want hi rez to keep developing characters that appeal only to your sexist views and if other people ALSO want other kind of characters that doesn't fit into your view you start saying thats because they are offended by seeing a pretty lady in a videogame.
If thats not pointlessy defending a privilege? idon't know what could be.

And so far i haven't seen a single person in the whole thread that is offended by seeing ONE hot chick in a videogame, or a girl that say explicitly that she wants to play a character thats similiar to her in the real life. so why people keep thinking this is all about pandering to them?

OzzyOzzy we are talking about expectations and stuff. the OP was made in september of the past year, when neither TYRA or MAEVE existed. you seriously are going to say me that withouth tyra or maeve all female heroes werent slender women with pretty generous tits? and cassie isn't slender? wow, no shit why stuff like anorexia exists.
then the thread evolved in what you see today, a lot of whining, and searching for non existant people that gets offended by seeing a hot chick in a videogame. we are not Demanding characters. saying that a sturdy frontliner would be amazing is not demanding. explaining that more diversity and less blatant assimetry is what appeal to A LOT of us isnt demanding. (and before i want to say that im a male with sexual atraction to females, and i'm saying it with the only purpose that hetero males can also be dissapointed by missing diversity, or when every female is a sexy lady which renders the whole "develop only to males" point even more asinine)

Even though some people are saying that Hi rez shouldnt develop considering also us because that means that is not longer their exclusive game or whatever. (and doesn't seems to be the case anyways)

SiderumNocte. i'm.... not sure if i got your point is not sexist because ads and because somewhere someplace men also suffer sexism?

And yeah, men "dominates" (it have changed a lot last years though) videogame industry for the same reasons that they also dominate soccer industry, and dont dominate dolls and clothing industries i guess? society dictate by our sex what we should take interest in? then again you would be a fool to think this is not changing...

MiraKabal
02-17-2017, 02:55 AM
LOL awwww do you need your safe space now? Feeling triggered? Need me to be more PC and CARE about how YOU feel and how my words and actions may affect you, even if I am not a member of the group I am belittling and mistreating?

But doesn't that make you an SJW? xD

Hmm, so I'm supposed to be trigerred now? was just pointing out the hypocracy of your own reply there, nothing more, nothing less. To be blunt, I think you're simply regurgitating cliched responses that are well played out by now and do not help the conversation, but hey maybe instigating animosity between the two sides of the conversation is really the way to go. Eitherway, I suppose having the likes of you on both sides is inescapable, so all the power to you?

MiraKabal
02-17-2017, 03:27 AM
Yet you are speaking in the name of those women. I am here standing by the opinion of a woman, a lot of women actually, in the subject of how games impact them.

It's reasonable to allow those women to speak for themselves without saying they are overreacting on something that does not affect you at all.

If you are happy with how it's going, good for you. Let other be people be as well, understand them, give them your support. Empathy is not going to hurt you.
If you so firmly believe they'll get what they want, don't try to diminish while they don't. It sets a pattern of behaviour that will be spread.

Gotta say, this is a fair and well-reasoned point. Thing is though, a male stating his opinion on the matter does not necessarily mean that he is diminishing the opinion of women. I mean why is it always assumed that any male who is not 100% in agreement with you is looking to have an argument? isn't it also possible that he is looking to have a discussion? In other words, me having an opinion does not mean that I view yours as insignificant or secondary, and me disagreeing with your opinion does not mean that I hold any anymosity towards you. Honestly, it is really unjust to sum up all the points made here or in the conversation in general in 'males are just trying to oppress our opinion'.

Branzer
02-17-2017, 04:22 AM
I would highly advise you to study sociology. You mean gender studies.

you'll realize that patriarchy is slowly crumbling down and women are occupying the spaces that they want Get this cancer off this website. The media is already clogged with it.

Because women being hot is a rule, when it's not for men. It's obligatory. And when that doesn't happen, i.e. Maeve, you can expect backlash Who said it doesnt apply to men? On what planet do you live? Are you a woman to claim this? Or did you assume that women dont judge men based on looks? The only backlash Maeve got was not for her looks but her advantage over other champions. People joking about her looking as a small child is not sexist nor its intended to demean women. But your sociology taught you otherwise.

The reason why women are not more present is because of patriarchal behaviour and an ideology that said that "women should be playing with dolls instead of videogames". Society is responsible for women not being active in the gaming community, that's not hard to understand.
Nobody smacked controllers of girl's hands if they wanted to play a video game. The choice was always in their hands. Could it be that women themselves chose not to, and not blame it on society like it witch-hunted any female gamers?

Branzer, your post have been a constant barrage of whine and agresiveness that can be sumed in this:
You want hi rez to keep developing characters that appeal only to your sexist views and if other people ALSO want other kind of characters that doesn't fit into your view you start saying thats because they are offended by seeing a pretty lady in a videogame.
If thats not pointlessy defending a privilege? idon't know what could be.
Well thanks for proving my point. If I liked attractive women I must be sexist. I never said I mind other characters as long as they fit with the game. The developers made attractive gals, you and your SJW-moral support group had to come here and call us "privileged","sexist","aggressive" simply because there is something that caters to us. Just because we like attractive women doesnt mean we disrespect women, nor does it mean we wouldnt welcome diversity. Stop shaming people for something that is natural.

RozenDERher
02-17-2017, 06:36 AM
Well thanks for proving my point. If I liked attractive women I must be sexist. I never said I mind other characters as long as they fit with the game. The developers made attractive gals, you and your SJW-moral support group had to come here and call us "privileged","sexist","aggressive" simply because there is something that caters to us. Just because we like attractive women doesnt mean we disrespect women, nor does it mean we wouldnt welcome diversity. Stop shaming people for something that is natural.

stop playing the victim, doesn't suit you.


Summary of OP's thread - I saw an attractive Skye/Cassie, which made me uncomfortable due to my insecurities. Plz add less attractive women in Paladins so we "less good looking ladies" feel better about ourselves.
2017 and people still find the stupidest reason to be offended. IN A VIDEO GAME.
Zarya in Overwatch was a typical SJW-move, since barely any women (even bodybuilders) have that kind of muscle mass. Men are expected to be men, strong leaders with protective roles. Women are more elegant and less masculine. This doesnt invalidate women in any way.

besides the obvious agresiveness and bad attempt at sarcasm (and not understanding an ounce of what people were talking) this comment reeks sexism.

If you aren't against diversity then why come to a thread only to attempt to ridicule people for stating that they would enjoy more the game with more diversity and less assimetry? then attempt to play the victim because "If I liked attractive women I must be sexist."

And you even have the self entiltment to call stuff "cancer that should get out of this website" like... come on.

Branzer
02-17-2017, 06:55 AM
Men are expected to be men, strong leaders with protective role

just because we like attractive women doesnt mean we disrespect women, nor does it mean we wouldnt welcome diversity. Stop shaming people for something that is natural

stop playing the victim, doesn't suit you.
besides the obvious agresiveness and bad attempt at sarcasm (and not understanding an ounce of what people were talking) this comment reeks sexism.
So apparently me saying men acting manly and masculine is sexist according to you? If I have counter argument, I must be aggressive. Who's playing the victim here?

If you aren't against diversity then why come to a thread only to attempt to ridicule people for stating that they would enjoy more the game with more diversity and less assimetry?
It started as a joke, but ofc you got offended and came here to teach people, guys in particular about their gaming "privilege". Zarya from Overwatch is prime example trying to break stereotypes. Only because people screamed "mysoginy" at blizzard. We dont need that kind of pandering here. There is nothing wrong or sexist expecting men to act like men, and women to act like women. Take off your SJW-glasses, not everyone is sexist because they disagreed with you.

KicksBrickster
02-17-2017, 07:02 AM
The question I have is this: why are we discussing this in a dead topic from over 5 months ago?

Hi-Rez, you really need to set something up to lock topics after a month of inactivity. The necroposting is getting ridiculous.

Atilah
02-17-2017, 11:32 AM
I didn't read anything on this threat, but...

I prefer to play with "sexy" girls instead of fat and ugly ones. Call me "special".

It's about tastes, talking about skins, I prefer to play Sha Lin or Fernando instead of Barik or Viktor, for example, because their skins.

Atilah
02-17-2017, 12:08 PM
Don't know who made a negative reputation comment with this:

"Oh, common! You could have stayed quiet instead of being disrespectful..."


When did I say anything disrespectful?

Are you retarded? (Now yeah). ;) Show me your face.

RozenDERher
02-17-2017, 03:11 PM
with all due respect... you came to a thread, clearly stated that you dont care enough to actually read what the hell is being discussed and just pointless say that you prefer playing with sexy (I assume that the second part states that you like playing with sexy males and females?)

that isnt exactly polite and a little pointless isnt it? (BTW I wasnt the one of the rep) we know you exist, thank you.

Still, by your logic... you are an ugly and fat dude? I mean you probably aren't brad pitt or someone uber hot, but you imply that if you are not super hot you can only be fat and ugly? what kind of dicotomy is that, fat and ugly sir?

And brazen we are not done yet but i dont have the time now to put an actual thoughtful post.. but i'm wondering if it would be better to continue on PM, since it would continue derailing the thread further .. BTW, just a quick pointer. if you are going to get offended by people getting "offended" by your jokes, try at least not get offended when someone else jokes about fat virgins. you know, so you can put more weight your comments.

And yeah feel free to call me a SuperJovialWargo, is not like people who actually can read the threads can't read and judge by themselves..;)

Wallachia
02-17-2017, 03:15 PM
I saw no disrespect on Atilah's posts at all.

What's so damn wrong on wanting to have nice-looking avatars? It's not my thing (I want my avatar in a game to either resemble me or at least wear clothes I like to wear), but he's not shaming anyone who thinks differently.

dmantakae
02-17-2017, 05:27 PM
The question I have is this: why are we discussing this in a dead topic from over 5 months ago?

Hi-Rez, you really need to set something up to lock topics after a month of inactivity. The necroposting is getting ridiculous.

Didn't even notice this thread was necro'd, that's why we ask forum members to report posts :/.

Anyways, I'll be closing this thread by the end of the day. These topics tend to get out of hand (as you can clearly see by reading posts in this thread) and quickly become insults after insults (which, as you can see, it has).

I just wanted to add my piece to the discussion. The Original poster isn't asking HiRez to remake models, and he/she isn't asking them to change the roster to strictly "unattractive" women, the poster is asking hirez to add diversity, which wouldn't hurt the game, or even affect anyone here in anyway. So I'm not sure why there's all this backlash.

Atilah
02-17-2017, 05:59 PM
with all due respect... you came to a thread, clearly stated that you dont care enough to actually read what the hell is being discussed and just pointless say that you prefer playing with sexy (I assume that the second part states that you like playing with sexy males and females?)

that isnt exactly polite and a little pointless isnt it? (BTW I wasnt the one of the rep) we know you exist, thank you.

Still, by your logic... you are an ugly and fat dude? I mean you probably aren't brad pitt or someone uber hot, but you imply that if you are not super hot you can only be fat and ugly? what kind of dicotomy is that, fat and ugly sir?

And brazen we are not done yet but i dont have the time now to put an actual thoughtful post.. but i'm wondering if it would be better to continue on PM, since it would continue derailing the thread further .. BTW, just a quick pointer. if you are going to get offended by people getting "offended" by your jokes, try at least not get offended when someone else jokes about fat virgins. you know, so you can put more weight your comments.

And yeah feel free to call me a SuperJovialWargo, is not like people who actually can read the threads can't read and judge by themselves..;)

Im sorry but you are so wrong. I'm sooooooo sexy. It's possible that it's a reason to want to play "sexy" characters, I feel more identify. Maybe you not. :)

Do not waste your time, I won't read 3/4 parts of your post, I'm too lazy.

tcrawford113
02-17-2017, 06:12 PM
The women in this game aren't shaped like that because they look like effective fighters, they're shaped like that because it's fun for you to look at.

Exactly. I don't want to see a whale or a woman that exchanged boobs for pecs. That is disgusting. We want the ideal, not the reality. If reality was enough, no one would play games or watch TV/movies. I hate that all these groups want to force writers and artists to include them at the cost of their creativity. Let them do what they do. More women characters will be added because that is where they will make most of their money. Sex sells. Ugly does not.

tcrawford113
02-17-2017, 06:34 PM
Guys, especially white men scream high and low that they don't care simply don't consider their rampant biases and have internalized their supremacy to a subconscious level. We are seen, heard and represented on all media ad nauseum but in fact many naively think that everyone is treated as well as men are or equally represented.. somewhere... in some way... Male character models also generally tend to bolster masculine fantasies of power and domination whereas it's completely the other way around for women, they are disempowered, sexualized and homogenized ad nauseum.

The only possible comparison I can make for other guys to relate is as follow: Imagine if pretty much all male characters were depicted as ninny looking flaming homos in onesies or half naked in suggestive, sexualized posture. Now realize that how you'd feel about that is a fraction of how women feel about representation.

So whenever a guy screams " ARG !! SJW pandering!! They are really saying : Everything should only pander to MEHHH!!!


Source: I study kyryarchy and structures of oppression/social science. Humbling experience to say the least.

You make it sound like white men are the only ones who are sexist and racist. The first four words of your post prove you wrong. You sound racist against white people and you are sexist against men. Yet, this is deemed acceptable. How can hate from any quarter be deemed acceptable? And; if you look at most men in TV, movies and video games; they are all built to appeal to a woman's idea of the perfect man. But, god forbid, men do the same. I love the double standard.

tcrawford113
02-17-2017, 07:05 PM
Didn't even notice this thread was necro'd, that's why we ask forum members to report posts :/.

Anyways, I'll be closing this thread by the end of the day. These topics tend to get out of hand (as you can clearly see by reading posts in this thread) and quickly become insults after insults (which, as you can see, it has).

I just wanted to add my piece to the discussion. The Original poster isn't asking HiRez to remake models, and he/she isn't asking them to change the roster to strictly "unattractive" women, the poster is asking hirez to add diversity, which wouldn't hurt the game, or even affect anyone here in anyway. So I'm not sure why there's all this backlash.

I don't disagree with the original post. But, some people chose to use it as an excuse to thrust their political opinions upon us. I argue with them. Mostly because I like to argue and participate in political forums for fun. However, this is not a political forum. I learned, from the videogame art and design program at the Art Institute, that males between the ages of 20-35 are the biggest group of gamers. As such, they are your biggest form of income. If you are going to pander to anyone, it is them. Yet, some people don't care that you are in this to make money. They just want the rest of the world to believe as they do. And, I don't want to hear that the Over Watch character Maye is fat. No she isn't. She wears a snow suit. She is not fat, the outfit just makes her fluffy.

ThatOthell159
02-17-2017, 07:16 PM
You make it sound like white men are the only ones who are sexist and racist. The first four words of your post prove you wrong. You sound racist against white people and you are sexist against men. Yet, this is deemed acceptable. How can hate from any quarter be deemed acceptable? And; if you look at most men in TV, movies and video games; they are all built to appeal to a woman's idea of the perfect man. But, god forbid, men do the same. I love the double standard.

My friend once told me this quote a few years back which I find very true - "Ignore the SJWs and hope that they will leave and go rant on the forums of another game, or let them stay long enough to become a meme for the community."

Back on topic:I agree with more diversity and all, infact I 100% encourage it. But calling other forum members "Nazis", "alt-righters", "[INSERT BUZZWORD HERE]" because they have a different opinion than you is kind of disturbing.

TrueSilvers
02-17-2017, 08:12 PM
LOL awwww do you need your safe space now? Feeling triggered? Need me to be more PC and CARE about how YOU feel and how my words and actions may affect you, even if I am not a member of the group I am belittling and mistreating?

But doesn't that make you an SJW? xD

tolerant left strikes again

Spacey1
02-17-2017, 08:29 PM
My friend once told me this quote a few years back which I find very true - "Ignore the SJWs and hope that they will leave and go rant on the forums of another game, or let them stay long enough to become a meme for the community."

Back on topic:I agree with more diversity and all, infact I 100% encourage it. But calling other forum members "Nazis", "alt-righters", "[INSERT BUZZWORD HERE]" because they have a different opinion than you is kind of disturbing.

Claims to support diversity. Constantly attacks anyone who suggests more diversity and regularly uses the term "SJW," a right-wing pejorative intended expressly to belittle people who actually support diversity and equal treatment. ~eyeroll~

The doublethink necessary to make such a claim with a straight face would make O'Brien himself proud.

Spacey1
02-17-2017, 08:34 PM
tolerant left strikes again

"Tolerance for me but not for thee!" cries the right, as they mock and belittle everyone else and viciously attack anyone who suggests more diversity ... and then demand respectful treatment.

tcrawford113
02-17-2017, 08:51 PM
"Tolerance for me but not for thee!" cries the right, as they mock and belittle everyone else and viciously attack anyone who suggests more diversity ... and then demand respectful treatment.

Feel better now? Did it help your cause at all?

Spacey1
02-17-2017, 09:10 PM
Feel better now? Did it help your cause at all?

I would feel better if people actually listened. I would feel better if they didn't think intolerance and a total lack of empathy made them "edgy" and "with it." I would feel better if I weren't living in a toxic society that apparently has recently jumped several decades backward, largely at the behest of a barely literate demagogue.

But since you're asking, do you feel better? Did you help your cause?

ThatOthell159
02-17-2017, 09:27 PM
Claims to support diversity. Constantly attacks anyone who suggests more diversity and regularly uses the term "SJW," a right-wing pejorative intended expressly to belittle people who actually support diversity and equal treatment. ~eyeroll~

The doublethink necessary to make such a claim with a straight face would make O'Brien himself proud.

Stop calling me an alt-right then I will stop calling you a SJW. And no, I'm not an alt-right, I dislike the ideology as much as you do.

ThatOthell159
02-17-2017, 09:41 PM
"Tolerance for me but not for thee!" cries the right, as they mock and belittle everyone else and viciously attack anyone who suggests more diversity ... and then demand respectful treatment.

"Tolerance for me but not for thee!" cries the left, as they mock and belittle everyone else and viciously attack anyone who has a different opinion ... and then demand respectful discussions.


And I'm just gonna type it again, I fully support the idea of adding more female champions.
But I'm not gonna accept how you start attacking people for no apparent reason other than because they have a dissimilar belief than yours.

tcrawford113
02-17-2017, 10:11 PM
I would feel better if people actually listened. I would feel better if they didn't think intolerance and a total lack of empathy made them "edgy" and "with it." I would feel better if I weren't living in a toxic society that apparently has recently jumped several decades backward, largely at the behest of a barely literate demagogue.

But since you're asking, do you feel better? Did you help your cause?

Don't have a cause. I exist. That is all that is required of me. I don't care if people agree with me. I don't care what they say, do, think or act. I recognize that they all have opinions and they very from one person to the next. And, I still DON'T CARE!!! Don't tell others how to think, they won't tell you how to think. It's simple logic.

RozenDERher
02-17-2017, 10:45 PM
well, someone mentioned politics and the thread seems to went even more to hell than before, its kinda amusing.

As a gift for the soon to be departed thread. i went back to the OP and the thread started to derail IMO when someone immediatly disregarded the OP as he stated that they didnt wanted fat ugly girls.

Considering that even through 5 months, this is still a matter that get brought back and seems to be the conclusion of some other thread, I think is relevant.

SO with all of that. having into consideration first that
A:This doesn't mean we can't or shouldn't have sexy girls in the game.
B: We can also have sexy guys in the game.
C: this is not calling Hi-Rez or saying that they don't care (they clearly do),in fact the questions aren't directed at Hi-Rez at all.

I raise TWO questions, first.
Why if someone isn't sexy, slender, or basically doesn't have the proportions of a disney princess means that they can only be Ugly or Fat?

Second.
why is only the male counterparts that are allowed to be Ugly or Fat? or old (Torvald)? or stocky (Barik), or round (bombking), or monster (Grover, drogoz, makoa, etc)? or horrendously disproportionated (ruckus) neither of this characters are in the common definitions of "sexy" or "idealized" male.

Why this kind of characters cant be in the game? why you are so against of them being in the game if they happened to be female? I'm not saying that you should be forced to love them, and that you cant have characters that pander to you.

But why some people is so against this in the game?

The thread is about to close, so please as I attempted to keep all internet sarcasm ive previously used out of this post. keep internet sarcasm and name calling out of your answers too.

GlowLight
02-18-2017, 02:35 AM
As a gift for the soon to be departed thread.


wat do u mean