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Silbergeist
09-16-2016, 05:00 PM
As we all know, Buck's damage's one of the lowest of the game, and the champion's probably one of the hardest to win a match. As he is, you must count that your enemy can't hit you enough, if he can, he'll just destroy you as most likely his DPS will be higher than yours.

Buck's a flanker, and as such he must do the hard work of getting behind enemy front-lines and killing characters such as Cassie and Viktor, that stay from afar and can really hamper a match, so being a flanker is important or your front-liners won't live long enough. But what comes is, a flanker needs to jump onto his enemy and get away as fast as possible, being able to kill his target in the process, but Buck can't do as much. His DPS is too low to kill an enemy fast, and he can actually be easily countered doing his function as he takes too long to kill someone, so they have time to call help from teammates, or can even kill you with their pure DPS and range.

Buck's practically a melee character, otherwise his damage's lacksluster, and being melee's defined by needing to get close, and you may receive damage trying to do this, and also means any type of disengage from an enemy is an extreme advantage. Any target with a disengage on a fast cooldown is enough to destroy him as they counter his only way of doing concise damage.

But when it comes to DPS you can actually see how weak Buck actually is. 611 every second is the kind of damage front-liners have, it's incompatible with a flanker, and some front-liners have a better time at it, like Barik having a full cartridge of 8 shots dealing 600 damage each every second on a faster reload, not counting his turrets and their proc, Makoa high up on his 4400 health and just as much DPS as Buck, on a 4 shots cartridge, but faster reload, and a bonus damage proc on his grab that's more than double the proc Buck has on his net, and on a lesser cooldown altogether, also practically guaranteeing the proc will be used while pushing the target to melee range.

I'm basing myself not even in OP characters, I could also compare him to Cassie and Pip, both that I think are good balanced champions, and I would still find good arguments against Buck, to name some, Cassie's DPS, range and fast disengage, Pip's health potion, mobility and hitbox, and both character's reload.

Based on the state of actual Buck, I did a poll asking if Buck needed a damage buff, but it got deleted in this forum revamp, so I'm here, back again, naming my concerns and doing the poll again. With the new income of players with the Open Beta, I hope the visibility will be greater, so vote up and voice your opinion. Does Buck needs a damage buff?

ZionPulse
09-16-2016, 05:13 PM
Yas please

Sasquatchias
09-16-2016, 05:33 PM
Personally I think for the fact that Buck needs to be in a close-ish range to even get effective damage off he needs to have his damage buffed up, assuming they don't increase his attack speed.

If Buck is to be a Flanker then he needs to be able to burst someone down effectively with his combo damage combined with his base damage, but right now it takes a full Leap + Net combo to even get someone to quarter health within 3-4 shots depending on pellets hit.

Meanwhile someone like Evie or Androxus has all their burst frontloaded on their Primary Fire alone and can easily burst down a squishy within 2-3 shots.

BDra
09-16-2016, 06:08 PM
I voted: Other...

He doesn't need more damage, he's in line with the Champion that he should be compared to: Barik. A good Buck kills a squishy in 2 shots and he has the means to keep himself alive. A really good Buck jumps into the fight someone else started and finishes it.

Cassie has higher damage, but a lot less health, less mobility and not even a heal. So I'm not sure why you would compare her to him. You're other example Pip does 600 dps, that's less than Buck.

His reload does need some work, it's to slow. But that was to be expected in the first Patch it's tested.

Edit: It's best to ignore classes, it's the most useless information you get ingame. You can play your Champion any way you wish and probably be effective. Hell 90% of the Champions can be played as a flanker...

Silbergeist
09-16-2016, 06:52 PM
I voted: Other...

He doesn't need more damage, he's in line with the Champion that he should be compared to: Barik. A good Buck kills a squishy in 2 shots and he has the means to keep himself alive. A really good Buck jumps into the fight someone else started and finishes it.

Cassie has higher damage, but a lot less health, less mobility and not even a heal. So I'm not sure why you would compare her to him. You're other example Pip does 600 dps, that's less than Buck.

His reload does need some work, it's to slow. But that was to be expected in the first Patch it's tested.

Edit: It's best to ignore classes, it's the most useless information you get ingame. You can play your Champion any way you wish and probably be effective. Hell 90% of the Champions can be played as a flanker...

Dealing 550 damage Buck would need 4 shots to kill Evie, the squishiest champion, which Barik needs 3, even though Buck can kill her a little bit faster (like 0.3 seconds faster, wow), but with much more difficulty, as he needs to lend one more full damage shot.

Cassie has lower health, but can shoot from afar dealing just as much damage, also having two disengages, F and her RMB, and her F is on a 4 second cooldown (I won't even argue about the card) while being much more flexible than Buck's jump that can be hardly hampered by scenery and is difficult to control. Her lack of heal isn't a problem as she's not the type of character made to soak up damage, but evade it, and her Q applies zombie, which counter's characters with healing skills. So she has good mobility, at least as a means of evading enemy shots, which, by the way, is a great way to counter Buck.

Pip's difference in DPS to Buck is laughable, Buck can deal 11 more damage than Pip, that's nothing. Also, if you account Buck's reload, his DPS falls by a lot. Pip has a heal that's just as powerful as Buck's, but is instant and on a lesser cooldown, this alone is problem enough, Pip's a little character, hard enough to hit, and has great mobility on his F, having such a strong heal just doesn't make that much sense.

Buck's high health is balanced by his weapon's range, having low damage is an "overbalancing", you give too many weaknesses to one good point. Makoa has more health, the same DPS, a barrier, and a hook that gives 70% damage proc, is easier to land than Buck's net, has lower cooldown, and takes the enemy to melee range, also making it nearly impossible to not hit the proc. Also, Makoa's weapon projectile is easier to hit than Buck's, at least accounting it's always full damage.

Now, about his reload, I must concur with you, it's too slow. A good damage buff would be a great way to counterbalance this problem. Buck would deal a good chunk of damage every 0.9 seconds (that I would just prefer they rounded up to 1 second already, 0.1 second is a ridiculous difference), but would have to pay attention to his reload, which would be his weakness.

I basically ignored classes, as I compared Buck to every class ignoring all flankers, and even as a front-liner, Buck would be weaker than most.

EDIT: Nearly forgot to talk about this, but the difference in health between Pip and Buck is a mearly 500. One more shot and they're even. Not only this, but I was testing here right now and, Pip's weapon has no damage fall off, dealing 600 damage from any range, this is enough to counter any damage argument, the guy needs to get close to you to be effective and his damage is lower? This game's balancing towards Buck is ridiculous, he must the weakest character as of now.

EDIT 2: Just now seen that Cassie's F actually has a 6 seconds cooldown, so it's more balanced than I first thought. The card's still ridiculous though.

BDra
09-16-2016, 07:10 PM
You're playing him wrong if you count your damage that way, you should always count 350 damage from the jump first. then you should net shot them and 2 shots late the opponent is down. (350+150+2*715=1930 and that's not counting headshots, something that you should always do during a slow since you get the full bonus when half the shrapnel hit the head)

You need to play Buck jumping from fight to fight, each of them started by someone else. Never go for Evie or Androxus(no mobile Champions, certainly when they're unbalanced), unless you're sure they're busy with a teammate of yours. Unless you see a Skye/Kinessa you shouldn't be going in for the solo kill.

I think this is just a case of adjusting your playstyle a bit, just experiment a bit more and you'll see he'll do alright.

Edit: It's hard to judge Champions atm with balance being royally messed up.

Silbergeist
09-16-2016, 07:51 PM
You're playing him wrong if you count your damage that way, you should always count 350 damage from the jump first. then you should net shot them and 2 shots late the opponent is down. (350+150+2*715=1930 and that's not counting headshots, something that you should always do during a slow since you get the full bonus when half the shrapnel hit the head)

You need to play Buck jumping from fight to fight, each of them started by someone else. Never go for Evie or Androxus(no mobile Champions, certainly when they're unbalanced), unless you're sure they're busy with a teammate of yours. Unless you see a Skye/Kinessa you shouldn't be going in for the solo kill.

I think this is just a case of adjusting your playstyle a bit, just experiment a bit more and you'll see he'll do alright.

Edit: It's hard to judge Champions atm with balance being royally messed up.

You see, I tend to not count damage from skills because the math would need to be much more well thought, I didn't count Cassie's bonus damage nor Pip's, only Makoa's, as it's really too much. Also, bonus damage requires you to hit those skills, which then enter on cooldown, and on an FPS, having a reliable source of damage at all times is a must, you're always shooting, it also requires skill to lend those shots, so skills end up being tools that help you work your LMB better, but shouldn't be something you rely on, unless all champions followed this same rule.

Now about the combo: Buck does his combo, if he can do it as it's possible to miss it, and then must wait 14 seconds to actually do the full combo again. To kill any character that's not Evie, he needs more than just two shots (and Evie's not a recommended champion to go against, as you said), while headshots aren't that easy to lend in a 1.5 seconds window (you can actually only hit a character once, I'm not counting cards), and characters can cancel the damage proc with their F.

Buck depending on starting a fight left by someone is an even bigger problem, every champion can do this, but also, every champion can work around alone if needed, while Buck would be the only one needing to take fights with others. This is a testament to his weakness.

If they changed Buck to front-liner, reworking some of his skills to work better as defense mechanics, maybe he would work all right with this damage, but that's a decision that would be up to them, and it doesn't seem they want it.

EDIT: I would even be all right if they nerfed his health and added some damage. Let's say, nerf him to 2500 health, buff his damage to 800 every second close range and it's game.

EDIT 2: I was wrong about Buck's net proc, it's possible to hit two times without cards, with cards it's possible to hit 3. Also, for his combo kit to work all right, he would need small cooldowns, I'm mostly talking about the net here, that thing really needs a cooldown drop.

ProfessorFart
09-16-2016, 08:28 PM
Based on his kit, I see Buck as the type of flanker that can chase after other flankers and fleeing targets while having enough beef to withstand some direct combat. His leap is what gives him that flank-grade mobility to pursue and it applies slow to anyone near the landing spot, perfect for foiling escape attempts. Then there's the net shot, which I think has too long of a cooldown, which can apply more slow, ensuring the escapee is even less capable of getting away while Buck pummels them. Ontop of that, if they fight back, Buck's health and Recovery allow him to shrug off the damage and probably leap away before someone else catches on. Unless he's in Buck Wild, low health targets can often withstand a few hits from his shotgun, even at point blank range (not counting headshots) and considering shotgun spread and the fact whoever he's targeting is trying to juke him, it would then take too much time to take out a character designed to pop in and out of combat. A character's health pool, weapon, and damage alone do not determine what they classify and why, it's the ability kit they possess. Buck can still use his powerful leap to navigate, close in, and escape like the other flankers, but he's not nearly as capable of causing a similar level of collateral the other flankers are capable of.

BDra
09-16-2016, 08:37 PM
You see, I tend to not count damage from skills because the math would need to be much more well thought, I didn't count Cassie's bonus damage nor Pip's, only Makoa's, as it's really too much. Also, bonus damage requires you to hit those skills, which then enter on cooldown, and on an FPS, having a reliable source of damage at all times is a must, you're always shooting, it also requires skill to lend those shots, so skills end up being tools that help you work your LMB better, but shouldn't be something you rely on, unless all champions followed this same rule.

Now about the combo: Buck does his combo, if he can do it as it's possible to miss it, and then must wait 14 seconds to actually do the full combo again. To kill any character that's not Evie, he needs more than just two shots (and Evie's not a recommended champion to go against, as you said), while headshots aren't that easy to lend in a 1.5 seconds window (you can actually only hit a character once, I'm not counting cards), and characters can cancel the damage proc with their F.

Buck depending on starting a fight left by someone is an even bigger problem, every champion can do this, but also, every champion can work around alone if needed, while Buck would be the only one needing to take fights with others. This is a testament to his weakness.

If they changed Buck to front-liner, reworking some of his skills to work better as defense mechanics, maybe he would work all right with this damage, but that's a decision that would be up to them, and it doesn't seem they want it.

EDIT: I would even be all right if they nerfed his health and added some damage. Let's say, nerf him to 2500 health, buff his damage to 800 every second close range and it's game.

EDIT 2: I was wrong about Buck's net proc, it's possible to hit two times without cards, with cards it's possible to hit 3.

Actually now Buck isn't the only one. In paladins Champions like Skye, Kinessa, Buck, Makoa (and Ying) are all Champions who excel in aiding other Champions and making a 1v1 a sudden 1v2.

A health nerf vs damage buff might be acceptable, but it should be done very carefully. And if that happens his new Ultimate has to go, it already is a lazy damage Ultimate (as if we don't have enough of those) and in that case it would be to strong.

Silbergeist
09-16-2016, 09:14 PM
Actually now Buck isn't the only one. In paladins Champions like Skye, Kinessa, Buck, Makoa (and Ying) are all Champions who excel in aiding other Champions and making a 1v1 a sudden 1v2.

A health nerf vs damage buff might be acceptable, but it should be done very carefully. And if that happens his new Ultimate has to go, it already is a lazy damage Ultimate (as if we don't have enough of those) and in that case it would be to strong.

The ult really could go a lot more creative and characteristic, it's just a damage buff and nothing else.

Eurorial
09-17-2016, 12:04 AM
I used to play Buck all the way back in CB28 when he could still be considered a tank. CB29 onwards, he just hasn't had the DPS needed to be an effective anything. He's got major flaws right now imo. His DPS is too low to compete with enemies in a 1v1 situation, which is more than likely to happen given his short range. He can't play as a tank, despite his bulky size, because his HP isn't high enough and he lacks a shield, so Fernando outclasses him easily in that regard.

Buck moves slow without his Leap and is armed with a short range weapon. He's gone too far to go back to tanking, so my suggestion would have to be a faster reload speed (because occasionally I'd end up needing that extra shell to secure the kill, but the current reload speed makes that an impossibility) as well as a range buff (a shotgun isn't and shouldn't be a melee weapon. Period.) Another solution could be to change his increased reload speed card into an increased mag capacity card (+1/2/3/4 shells?) that gives him the extra push to secure kills without directly increasing his DPS (which some would say is okay as of now). Finally, his Ult is just lazily designed. I preferred his old Imprisonment better as it could be used more tactically to stall payload carts or force enemies to fight you instead of teammates on the objective. Just my feeling tho.

BDra
09-17-2016, 04:55 AM
The thing is, buffing Buck would change his current playstyle a lot and he might turn out the new Androxus. But people seem to be set in playing him 1 way (I keep seeing 1v1 mentioned).

I seriously think people should try teaming up with him, have a friend play Cassie/Grohk/Makao or so and reap the rewards of just clearing up the enemy team. You could try it with Kinessa, but she's extremely vulnerable to the OP 2 (Androxus and Evie).

Silbergeist
09-17-2016, 05:28 AM
I think he would be more on par with Grohk, like a mobile version of him. Grohk has 850 DPS, but this Buck would have 800 DPS, to compensate for a higher health, less range/higher damage fall off to also compensate the higher health, a mobile regeneration that's weaker, but won't hold you on a spot, and a good mobility skill. Buck's ult would need a remake, something not focused on damage, but utility, and also with a little more investiment on art, you see, the new Buck ult seems like a half-assed excuse for "we didn't do any art, let's just increase stats and it's great".

BDra
09-17-2016, 07:15 AM
I think he would be more on par with Grohk, like a mobile version of him. Grohk has 850 DPS, but this Buck would have 800 DPS, to compensate for a higher health, less range/higher damage fall off to also compensate the higher health, a mobile regeneration that's weaker, but won't hold you on a spot, and a good mobility skill. Buck's ult would need a remake, something not focused on damage, but utility, and also with a little more investiment on art, you see, the new Buck ult seems like a half-assed excuse for "we didn't do any art, let's just increase stats and it's great".

Grohk has 0 Bonus damage, so if you'd want him on par with Grohk his Net Shot/Heroic Leap/Headshot Bonus damage has to go. If that happens you can bring him to Grohk DPS, if not 800 DPS would be to high.

Elveone
09-17-2016, 09:38 AM
Something I suggested before the previous thread got moved into oblivion - double Bucks damage, make him have only 2 shots before reload and change his ult to removing the need to reload for several seconds.

BDra
09-17-2016, 09:58 AM
Something I suggested before the previous thread got moved into oblivion - double Bucks damage, make him have only 2 shots before reload and change his ult to removing the need to reload for several seconds.

1100 damage? When he has 3 Bonus damages, that would really be overkill even with the limited amount of ammo.

Elveone
09-17-2016, 10:16 AM
1100 damage? When he has 3 Bonus damages, that would really be overkill even with the limited amount of ammo.

He will basically be doing the same damage before he needs to reload and the reload is kinda long and they can make it longer. It will boost his burst damage while keeping his overall damage at relatively the same place.

BDra
09-17-2016, 11:36 AM
He will basically be doing the same damage before he needs to reload and the reload is kinda long and they can make it longer. It will boost his burst damage while keeping his overall damage at relatively the same place.

that would be op with a 6 second cooldown on Heroic Leap.

If this happens he'd have to lose all his bonus damage and the cooldown on Heroic leap would have to be increased to at least 15 with no possibility to lower it.

ProfessorFart
09-17-2016, 01:15 PM
Something I suggested before the previous thread got moved into oblivion - double Bucks damage, make him have only 2 shots before reload and change his ult to removing the need to reload for several seconds.

I'm with BDra on this. Even though it's very penalizing if you miss, this level of damage extremely goes beyond the ambush damage that the other flankers possess, which is already rediculous. An increase in the leap's CD to compensate for this would unfortunately mess with his ability to be a flanker and stay mobile. His ultimate would also be grossly over-powered, turning an immensely high burst damage into a potential team wiping sustained. In fact, since your suggestion implies the use of a double barreled shotgun, it would have presumably a higher fire rate allowing Buck to two shot roughly half the roster and this is without Net Shot's bonus damage.

I personally don't think Leap should have it's bonus damage removed because that's it's only damage and Buck's primary means of inflicting slow on his targets, especially with Net Shot's long cooldown. In fact, why is Heroic Leap's damage classified as "bonus damage" to begin with? If it was "normal damage" would Buck be able to damage champions by leaping into them as opposed to landing near them?

Elveone
09-17-2016, 01:26 PM
OK, adjustment to the idea - make it a double shotty and with his current damage doubled have him reload after each shot. Ult is the one I suggested before but for 4 seconds - I really don't think it will be OP as we have fucking Androxus and Skye ult in the game.

Silbergeist
09-17-2016, 01:35 PM
Grohk has 0 Bonus damage, so if you'd want him on par with Grohk his Net Shot/Heroic Leap/Headshot Bonus damage has to go. If that happens you can bring him to Grohk DPS, if not 800 DPS would be to high.

Now, that's true. Didn't really think about it. Did a lot of math here to acquire his DPS, accounting skill combo and net shot proc, based on a 700 damage Buck with no headshots, and I got 1181 DPS , roughly. This DPS doesn't count his constant damage, nor reload, but an average of his entire damage, discounting cooldowns (I may be wrong, I'm no mathematician, but I think it would be something around that). It's higher than Cassie's, but considering that you need a lot more skill to deal this DPS with Buck, than you need to deal Cassie's 900, I think it's fair. The combo would be more bursty though, 500 damage from Heroic Leap + Net Shot, then 1820 from the two proc shots would sum up to 2320 damage, which can burst down many of the squishies, but I think that's fair if the idea is to make him dependant on his combo, as it's on an average cooldown, with Net Shot 14 and Heroic Leap 6, and also accounting the skill you need to pull this combo off and the time it would get for you to recover after a failed attempt, and the punishment it could cause you. We must also remember, characters have means of evading a full combo, may it be mobility, survivability, regeneration, pure health, you name it, so there's more to the counting than just the raw numbers, after all, we're not always playing against the Shooting Range dummies that never move... Except for Pip. Then, concluding, with the 700 damage left without the combo, Buck would still have a reliable source of damage on top of his 4 second reload (I thought it was 3, tried counting it on a clock). And well, there's the headshot point, which could be considered OP, but considering the difficulty it is to land a headshot (I land mine by luck, and rarely with Buck, don't even try aiming for the head as it may be too punitive considering the chances of missing shots), I think it's still fair enough that someone with this much skill could do a good chunk of damage.

BDra
09-17-2016, 02:05 PM
First of all: maybe use a few paragraphs, a big wall of text is hard to read.

Second:
Buck harder than Cassie? seriously? That's just not true.

Anyway, Buck has his health, CC, a healing skill, a hitscan weapon, mobility and easy access bonus damage vs Cassie who has range, a fast reload, built in short term cauterize and knockback. So he'll have to lose a lot to deserve damage on Cassie her level who does around 933 DPS. To be honest if he's changed into a 1v1 Champion rather than a Flanker who Flanks enemies already engaged he'll have to lose about 2/3 of the assets he has now.

I'm still not convinced he should get it. I was planning to playing a lot of Buck today, but that will have to wait until tomorrow.

Silbergeist
09-17-2016, 03:27 PM
First of all: maybe use a few paragraphs, a big wall of text is hard to read.

Second:
Buck harder than Cassie? seriously? That's just not true.

Anyway, Buck has his health, CC, a healing skill, a hitscan weapon, mobility and easy access bonus damage vs Cassie who has range, a fast reload, built in short term cauterize and knockback. So he'll have to lose a lot to deserve damage on Cassie her level who does around 933 DPS. To be honest if he's changed into a 1v1 Champion rather than a Flanker who Flanks enemies already engaged he'll have to lose about 2/3 of the assets he has now.

I'm still not convinced he should get it. I was planning to playing a lot of Buck today, but that will have to wait until tomorrow.

I find Buck a lot harder than Cassie, she's a safer champion altogether, what you must do with Buck is more focused on hitting skills on a higher cooldown than a primary shot, while Cassie's more focused on just hitting her LMB at any distance, so she doesn't need to be at the heat of the fray to do her job, and on a 1v1 scenario she has great tools for maneuvering the battlefield and escaping enemy shots. Buck needs to be close and personal, so he will receive a lot of damage while doing it, hence his high health and regeneration skill to help him sustain better at an encounter. Considering he also needs to link a skill combo, he must do more than just shooting, and this more can be hardly punished, hence he has a higher risk than safer champions.

Here's a paragraph for you, with love. Cassie also has easy access to bonus damage, actually much easier than Buck, as her tumble's cooldown's 6 seconds. Buck's Leap's also on a 6 seconds cooldown, and actaully does some damage that could be considered even more than her bonus, but it's pretty difficult to control his jump, and he's pretty vulnerable while mid-air (for someone with good aim), so it's still a balanced difference. His weapon's hitscan, but also has a sprayed shot, that may not cause full damage always, coupled with it being range capped. And well, about losing assests to balance him out, I'm not against it, halving his Leap's damage, removing the Net Shot damage, but that would remove him from the combo champion status Erez talked about.

Now, about being 1v1 or not, the problem I see here is that he's not a protector who needs to stay on point, at a safer spot, like Makoa, for instance. He's not suited for helping the team out with barrier's or heals, he's clearly made to jump on someone who's giving the team trouble and liquidating that character, but even this is difficult for him. Having to depend on the team to drop someone's health for him to finalize is not just kind of lackluster, but also would mean he's not a character for solo queue. Having to coordinate with other people is something that only works 100% with a team, otherwise it's always good to be certain that you can manage yourself alone when needed.

Now, you see, when someone 1v1s Buck, he must not feel the encounter will be certain win, it must feel like any other 1v1, it's a risk to be taken, the best of the two will win. Buck will do his job, trying to get closer, using his high health to absorb some damage in doing this, his regeneration to sustain better the combat situation, his Leap to try getting closer and his net, when available, to wreck the enemy. If he misses his net, he's a lot closer to defeat than Cassie, and with a 14 seconds cooldown, it's probably a one chance only situation.

Cassie on the other hand won't face Buck close range, she's not made for this, she should be far away poking him hard, she's great at this, so while Buck's trying to get closer, Cassie's trying to stay away. With 6 seconds cooldown on her tumble, a good knockback on her RMB, that also prevents a target from getting closer, and a zombifying arrow that counters enemy regen, she has all the tools she needs to 1v1 a 700 damage Buck. As much as she'll have to hit her shot, Buck will also have to, but for him to deal the same damage she does, he'll need to get close range, and that's where all the fight will happen. If Buck can use his entire combo she's finished, but at the same time she won't make it easy by poking him hard from range, and making it difficult and dubious for him to hit his net. He may hit it, but she may also hit her RMB, destroying his chances of comboing her, also, she may cancel the status effect of the net with her tumble, and then, if nothing works for Buck and he's all out of skills, they'll both have to duel.

Still, Buck has his high health and a regen, so he may still be able to get close to her and hit some shots, Cassie on the other hand will continue to poke him and use her Q to hamper his regen. Both have the same damage, 700, but Buck's a little slower and needs to be close to do his full damage, while she just needs to maintain range and hit her shots. Basically, that's it. Buck has tools to burst her down, but may he fail he's more hardly punished than her. The 700 damage makes matters a little better for Buck in this confrontation, but he's still slower than her and needs to close quarters, so there's her advantage. Both have reliable sources of damage on their F, so that's it, until the death of one of them.

Now, on a scenario where Buck has 150 damage less, he's a bit underpowered.

BDra
09-17-2016, 04:04 PM
I'm more in the middle of the fight with Cassie than I'm with Buck. And she's far better used as a close combat fighter as a ranged fighter. You'll double your damage output and kill a lot more people. You might risk yourself more, but it's worth the risk. Playing her as a distance fighter only is just wrong... Her Bonus damage triggers when she uses her movement ability, you wont be triggering that unless you can do it in the direction of cover. Btw what are her tools for maneuvering trough the battle? I think you're confusing her with Evie.

Also I still think you're stuck with the name Flanker/Protector, those are names made to make the game easier to understand to new people not real classes.

It took 3 games to get back in form with Buck, 1 to find the best deck for me.

Him difficult to control mid Air? I just jumped from a roof on the new map to an Androxus mid air and killed him while I flew past (2 shots on the body) and landed on the opposite roof...

I just play Buck as a real flanker and almost only engage if I can catch an opponent off guard or engaged in a fight and it works perfectly. I do engage in big fights, but only when I'm sure there's backup. In those cases Buck is great to distract and make them focus you. I do play with a 4 sec Heroic Leap, so I jump in take damage, jump out to their backline and heal up. So that they need to fall back to handle me in their back and be vulnerable to my team or they stay in the fight and be vulnerable to me.

I'm far from a good player and I seem to do ok with him.

So basically, my feeling is you're not playing to the strengths of both Champions.

You do get royally screwed over with his reload. His reload in total should be about the same as Ruckus his reload, so Buck needs a decrease and Ruckus an increase in reload time.

Equinoct
09-17-2016, 07:08 PM
Buck is garbage, he needs adjustments to his whole toolset. His ult needs to reduce his damage while active, there needs to be a way better tradeoff for shooting close range, and the net needs to be stronger before cards even come into play.

Silbergeist
09-18-2016, 07:46 AM
I'm more in the middle of the fight with Cassie than I'm with Buck. And she's far better used as a close combat fighter as a ranged fighter. You'll double your damage output and kill a lot more people. You might risk yourself more, but it's worth the risk. Playing her as a distance fighter only is just wrong... Her Bonus damage triggers when she uses her movement ability, you wont be triggering that unless you can do it in the direction of cover. Btw what are her tools for maneuvering trough the battle? I think you're confusing her with Evie.

Also I still think you're stuck with the name Flanker/Protector, those are names made to make the game easier to understand to new people not real classes.

It took 3 games to get back in form with Buck, 1 to find the best deck for me.

Him difficult to control mid Air? I just jumped from a roof on the new map to an Androxus mid air and killed him while I flew past (2 shots on the body) and landed on the opposite roof...

I just play Buck as a real flanker and almost only engage if I can catch an opponent off guard or engaged in a fight and it works perfectly. I do engage in big fights, but only when I'm sure there's backup. In those cases Buck is great to distract and make them focus you. I do play with a 4 sec Heroic Leap, so I jump in take damage, jump out to their backline and heal up. So that they need to fall back to handle me in their back and be vulnerable to my team or they stay in the fight and be vulnerable to me.

I'm far from a good player and I seem to do ok with him.

So basically, my feeling is you're not playing to the strengths of both Champions.

You do get royally screwed over with his reload. His reload in total should be about the same as Ruckus his reload, so Buck needs a decrease and Ruckus an increase in reload time.

The tools I said she has are her F and RMB. Great skills for mobility and disengage, and her F is more flexible than Buck's F, which needs more agency from the player to be controlled to hit some specific spot.

I've been trying to play Buck for quite some time now, but had so many bad matches that I got psychologically discouraged, so the more I tried, the worse it got. I actually was having some good matches with him at the beginning of the patch, nothing comparable to what I did with some other champions, but got good damage and high kill count, even though not so many were actual kills. Then, I began getting some matches with more than average players and it all went downhill, couldn't do much to help the team, and just staying by the tank's side shooting for mediocre damage wasn't that interesting.

Since then, didn't win any good matches with Buck, had some others lately where I tried the less invasive method, kind of shooting for some damage from afar and maybe jumping on in against a weakened enemy, managed to won, but it was so boring and unfulfilling I couldn't play more than one match like this. I liked using Buck's regen and Syphon card to go head against a foe and maintain myself through lifesteal, but that's not a tactic that works anymore, not against players who can hit you fairly well.

This play you did against Androxus was great, but I didn't say his jump was hard in this manner, I meant more in controlling how far it will go, for you to hit the enemy while landing. 150 ping doesn't help either, had jumps where I landed beside the enemy and he didn't even get hit. Also, there's some kind of bug, I think, where enemies in the area where Buck begins his jump also take damage when he lands. Also, some people can kill Buck while he's mid-air by shooting at the point where he jumped from. Don't know if those are bugs or just lag problems.

Sadly, I didn't do any good with him lately, and think the biggest problem in this is his damage, as some encounters I lost for lacking a reliable source. Just that little more and I wouldn't have suffered as much. After wasting all my shots I had to spend the 4 seconds reloading (this happened two times in a confronation I had) and the damage I did didn't compensate for it, so I lost those battles. If they removed the reload, his damage would be nearly alright, just increasing his firerate back to 0.7 and it would be perfect.

BDra
09-18-2016, 08:01 AM
Are you sure that you land next to enemies and they don't receive damage? They told us that bug was fixed and I've not encountered yet. You should try to make a video of it, because that would be really bad. If the bonus damage doesn't trigger that means that cards depending on landing in proximity also wont always trigger. Buck had these problems before. I really hope this was just missed and not that bug being back.

His main problem atm is his reload and that he's extremely vulnerable to Androxus and Evie. Well he's vulnerable to all other mobility Champions, so include Drogoz and other Bucks, but that goes both ways. But sadly most people seem to have noticed the OP 2 and most matches you encounter Androxus and Evie in the opposing team.

The only problems where I have problem aiming his Heroic Leap is indoors and around some of the enemy bases, it's mostly practice.

But I haven't had any problems with his damage and any buff here would make it to strong in my opinion.

Anyway, you should try a mobility Loadout, you'll do a lot better with him than with a sustain Loadout.

The reloading remains a problem, but I'm handling it by reloading during his Heroic Leap.

Silbergeist
09-18-2016, 08:46 AM
Played three more, lost three more. The game just isn't helping me out, afkers with high ping, people with Artemis's aim, just too much to handle right now, can't actually test anything out like this.

PTLagger
09-18-2016, 04:03 PM
A way to boost his DPS (maybe), I feel he attack faster lol

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zSfIMEK4ju8

BDra
09-18-2016, 04:22 PM
A way to boost his DPS (maybe), I feel he attack faster lol

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zSfIMEK4ju8

The pause between shots should always triggered also after the last shot. But on Buck his new reload in that video it doesn't seem to be the case. But still, his first bullet reloads longer than a second, the other 5 take less than a second each. My video editing software acted up, but that did seem to be the case.

KingStarfire
09-18-2016, 05:05 PM
i feel like his ability to ambush and dps you down and then become SUPER WEAK if he cant finish (what with his lackluser reload speed) doesnt jive with the crap damage he ACTUALLY DEALS. In most skirmish situations where ive tried to ambush or quickly 1v1 somebody he just gets straight bodied. HE should be able to burst more or make his reload speed much better if the idea is to make him more of a sustained damage dealer cause his kit atm seems at odds with either damage dealer type.

Silbergeist
09-18-2016, 10:47 PM
It's funny seeing this shoot/reload mechanic, seems pretty wrong. Now, about his reload, I think it should be completely removed, it just doesn't work for the kind of character they want Buck to be. With such a high reload he would need a high damage, and I mean pretty high damage, but that wouldn't go well with the type of character he is now. They made their worst decision with this weapon, only now I see this. His first shot reload must not be lower than his firerate, or he will be able to shoot faster by reloading a bullet and shooting, like PTLagger showed there, and maintaining his reload as is would require a big damage buff, so nothing works.

I was playing a little more again, and got wrecked by a Cassie... Again. She was playing like a flanker and was pretty good. When she got to confront me I couldn't do much more than run away, but even then she would most likely continue chasing me, and depending if I didn't have any good place to hide behind, she could just shoot me from range and kill me anyway. Tried going against her and also didn't work, she exploded me too fast (she killed me with a burst of damage in 3 seconds), and I couldn't do much. Only now it got my attention that her combo deals 1500+ damage, and, considering her DPS, that's more than enough, and actually changes a lot the 1v1 situation I hypothesized before.

Makoa's better at doing what Buck does now, disregarding class, he's just a tighter choice. Good health, medium DPS (same as Buck), reliable gap closer with good damage bonus, shield that helps teammates in a group situation, a good disengage/engage, and a powerful supreme to protect a point. What Buck has that's better is his Heroic Leap, but it doesn't outweight all the betters Makoa has. Not that I find Makoa a fun champion to play, but in this type of gameplay he's good.

Silbergeist
09-19-2016, 06:42 AM
Been thinking about how Buck could be balanced and came to the conclusion he's not the type of champion that can have high direct damage, considering he has a high health and a regeneration skill, so what's left is sustained damage, something I didn't talk much about because of this new shotgun he has and its reload.

A sustained damage Buck would need a faster firerate, pretty much like he had before, but his damage was so crap it didn't mean much, so, considering his new damage a firerate of one shot per 0.5 seconds would do 1100 DPS, 0.6 would do 916 and 0,7 would do 785. Now, I think 0.6 is a good firerate, but if we were to have it, I think the damage would be better decreased to 500. Now, he shoots nearly like Androxus, but his DPS isn't as high, nor has he as much range without losing damage, but that's okay. In 3.6 seconds he deals 3000 damage and then must reload. I thought a lot about this, and came to the conclusion he can keep the pump shotgun, but if the reload's actually 4 to 5 seconds, then it needs a little buff there, to 3.6 seconds max. Buck would reload one shell every 0.5 second, and end by pumping the shotgun in an animation of 0.6 second. If you stop the reload midway, this same animation will have to be made, so reloading one shell would take 1.1 second. Reload cards and items would work just fine as the animation wouldn't be changed by it, so at least more than 0.6 second would be needed to reload one shell. Now we have an 833 DPS Buck, that needs to reload for the same ammount of time it takes for him to empty his cartridge, and can't hack his reload to break the game. Time to talk about skills and combos.

Buck can be considered an instance character: Net Shot available/Net Shot unavailable. Based on his new damage his combo would go on like this: Heroic Leap dealing 350 damage, plus Net Shot with 150 damage, and coupled with his Net Shot's proc that would deal 150 bonus damage for the next 3 shots. A total of 2450 damage in roughly 2 seconds, but that's an instance, every 14 seconds he can do this, as he's limited by his Net Shot's cooldown.

But to be able to get to his enemies and use his combo he needs to have a reliable survivability skill, as not always he'll be able to get them by surprise and may even fail his combo and have to fight with pure damage, there comes his Regeneration. As it is now, it's easily hampered by the zombify stat, and even without considering it, it's not a strong healing skill, so he may be burst down before it can even take its full effect, also, if compared to other similar skills, it falls short in power. To balance this out and make this skill on par with the others, he could gain damage reduction on top of the healing. Something around 30% damage reduction for the duration of the skill. This way Buck would have a reliable way of getting close to the enemy and maybe fighting when without his combo. This also would fall into an instance scenario, where he can sustain better while he has his Regeneration, but while it's on cooldown he's more vulnerable.

Based on those changes I can name here pros and cons and how they balance one another:

-Moderately high health/Large model hitbox
-Good regeneration skill/Easily poked by ranged champions
-Hitscan shots/Less weapon range (Higher falloff and sprayed shot)
-Good DPS/Low shot damage
-High firerate/Needs to hit more shots
-High combo damage/High cooldowns
-Good mobility skill/Hardly hampered by scenery

The only thing that would still need change is his supreme, I think something like Pip's would be great, some kind of AOE supportive skill. Maybe he could shoot a special kind of net that would entangle everyone in an area and push them towards the center point dealing damage depending on how many are taken by it. Such skill would be great to combo with other supremes (Pip, Bomb King, Androxus).

PS: I still think I can improve upon this, should it be too much, but not now, it's been quite some time I've been thinking about this, and what we got here is enough of a concept to what I think would help balance him, maybe nerf his firerate to 0.7 with a 550 damage, but that would change the reload, so then I see if it would be good.

PTLagger
09-19-2016, 07:21 AM
My idea for his shotgun ammo/reload change are:
#1 Buck's shotgun has 8 shells, and he reload 2 shells each time every 1s, so he need 4s to do full reload
#2 Buck will a reload clip instead which has 6 shells and take 2.0s reload or a bit longer but not over 3s.
#3 (My crazy idea) Buck use a semi-auto shotgun, not pump action anymore, deal up to 350-400 dmg every 0.5s, use the same reload mechanic, but faster a bit (or from #1, #2)

Silbergeist
09-19-2016, 07:54 AM
My idea for his shotgun ammo/reload change are:
#1 Buck's shotgun has 8 shells, and he reload 2 shells each time every 1s, so he need 4s to do full reload
#2 Buck will reload clip instead which has 6 shells and take 2.0s reload or a bit longer but not over 3s.
#3 (My crazy idea) Buck use a semi-auto shotgun, not pump action anymore, deal up to 350-400 dmg every 0.5s, use the same reload mechanic, but faster a bit (or from #1, #2)

I actually like this idea. #3 and #1 could complement each other, you have 400 damage every 0.5s, 800 DPS, 8 shells cartridge, totalizing 3200 damage, with a 4 seconds reload, 2 shells each second, which's better in a trade where you ran out of bullets and the guy's one shot to die, and it keeps the Pump Shotgun idea. His combo would be more balanced, but still a good burst, so it's kind of perfect.

This, coupled with damage reduction on his Regeneration and the Net supreme I talked about ealier would probably make him a much more interesting character. Maybe his Net Shot could even have its cooldown lowered, considering the combo wouldn't be as powerful.

Zenatsu
09-20-2016, 07:38 AM
You're playing him wrong if you count your damage that way, you should always count 350 damage from the jump first. then you should net shot them and 2 shots late the opponent is down. (350+150+2*715=1930 and that's not counting headshots, something that you should always do during a slow since you get the full bonus when half the shrapnel hit the head)

You need to play Buck jumping from fight to fight, each of them started by someone else. Never go for Evie or Androxus(no mobile Champions, certainly when they're unbalanced), unless you're sure they're busy with a teammate of yours. Unless you see a Skye/Kinessa you shouldn't be going in for the solo kill.

I think this is just a case of adjusting your playstyle a bit, just experiment a bit more and you'll see he'll do alright.

Edit: It's hard to judge Champions atm with balance being royally messed up.

That's right here the perfect scenario..Can you do that 9/10 times? I doubt that and that means you'll be going on an enemy every 15-20 seconds...You're being a drag on the team like that.

He's damage is way too low along with the cooldown. I would gladly take's barik's shotgun insted of Bucks that thing is useless even picking off low HP's he still sucks i can barely get 30 eliminations with him while i can easily do 45+ on any other flank and damage..and Pip.

Zeleen
09-20-2016, 07:52 AM
As it direly needs to be said so I have to reiterate:

Buck wants to be seen jumping on the backlines as he bait people away from the objective or at least keep backliners worried and looking away from objective. His role is to disrupt and distract above getting picks much like Winston in OW. That's why he's so bulky and has low firepower. You are not supposed to rack up kills with him. Once the bulk of players figure this out he will be deemed OP.

So yeah... Buck = Gangsta disruptor.

Let it be known across the realm

Silbergeist
09-20-2016, 07:58 PM
As it direly needs to be said so I have to reiterate:

Buck wants to be seen jumping on the backlines as he bait people away from the objective or at least keep backliners worried and looking away from objective. His role is to disrupt and distract above getting picks much like Winston in OW. That's why he's so bulky and has low firepower. You are not supposed to rack up kills with him. Once the bulk of players figure this out he will be deemed OP.

So yeah... Buck = Gangsta disruptor.

Let it be known across the realm

I would agree with you, but Buck can't sustain so well, I've been burst down quite easily by damagers while playing him, so the idea he's a sustained bully doesn't work now, but back in the days of CB30 it worked. My Regeneration sugestion I gave above would work really well at improving Buck's ability to sustain.

I also came up with an idea that removes the need of buffing Buck's damage or firerate: giving his reload a passive. Whilst reloading, Buck's cooldowns are doubly reduced, or, for every bullet Buck reloads, his cooldowns fall one more second. This would help him be a skill based character, while also making his combo more reliable, but wouldn't break him, as he would only have short cooldowns while active, going for the fight and then reloading.

In the end, Buck would be the perfect instance character, a model widly seen in recent League of Legends (Kled, Jhin, Gnar, Ryze, you name it). Instance characters are those that have moments of power where they're always waving through high and low... power. Buck would have this on his reload and his skills. While he has bullets and skills, he's high on scale, when he's only bullets, he's weaker than most, and while reloading he's away from battle, but while doing this his cooldowns are going down faster so he can go back into the fight.

Also, I'd like to reiterate the supreme idea, a net shot that hits an area and pushes everyone to the center while dealing some damage based on how many are taken. To give the supreme some value against lone character's, it could also stun for awhile, like his old net shot did. Maybe icrease damage output against character hit by it.

EDIT: Only now gave my votes:
- "No, but his regeneration could have a slight buff, if compared to Pip's Q it's just a weaker version"
- "No, just reduce his net's cooldown and it's game"
- "Other... (post in the comments)"

Mundal
09-26-2016, 02:04 AM
It's funny seeing this shoot/reload mechanic, seems pretty wrong. Now, about his reload, I think it should be completely removed, it just doesn't work for the kind of character they want Buck to be. With such a high reload he would need a high damage, and I mean pretty high damage, but that wouldn't go well with the type of character he is now. They made their worst decision with this weapon, only now I see this. His first shot reload must not be lower than his firerate, or he will be able to shoot faster by reloading a bullet and shooting, like PTLagger showed there, and maintaining his reload as is would require a big damage buff, so nothing works.

I was playing a little more again, and got wrecked by a Cassie... Again. She was playing like a flanker and was pretty good. When she got to confront me I couldn't do much more than run away, but even then she would most likely continue chasing me, and depending if I didn't have any good place to hide behind, she could just shoot me from range and kill me anyway. Tried going against her and also didn't work, she exploded me too fast (she killed me with a burst of damage in 3 seconds), and I couldn't do much. Only now it got my attention that her combo deals 1500+ damage, and, considering her DPS, that's more than enough, and actually changes a lot the 1v1 situation I hypothesized before.

Makoa's better at doing what Buck does now, disregarding class, he's just a tighter choice. Good health, medium DPS (same as Buck), reliable gap closer with good damage bonus, shield that helps teammates in a group situation, a good disengage/engage, and a powerful supreme to protect a point. What Buck has that's better is his Heroic Leap, but it doesn't outweight all the betters Makoa has. Not that I find Makoa a fun champion to play, but in this type of gameplay he's good.

Cassie can pretty much wreck any non tank class with ease, i don't think her arrows have fall off (ill have to check it at shooting range) she can dish out some pretty serious damage, all one has gotta do is hold down m1 and just aim it in the direction of target. Her traversal is good and the knockback arrows are pretty useful all of this makes up for her crappy ultra.

Silbergeist
09-27-2016, 06:24 AM
The problem I see with Cassie wrecking Buck is that he's supposed to be the bruiser kind of guy, able to withstand some damage to do his own, but he's currently not able to do this if the enemy he's going against is good enough. And considering his Regeneration's weak, I think it could be buffed to cover this issue Buck has. Giving it a 30% damage reduction through its duration would make more sense to the skill not being instant, and would also balance it towards the same level of the other characters healing skills. Would also be great to have some work on his reload, it's just too bad.

KuroDWalker
09-27-2016, 07:19 AM
when I look to this champ I think, this is a tank, I don't think he needs a buff

Fazhar
09-28-2016, 03:09 AM
Well, he deals an amount of damage that equals that of a tank, thats true....

However since he has no real defensive mechanics (execpt a 1k HP heal over 4 sec.) he can in no way considered as a tank.

KingMOECCHI
09-28-2016, 03:58 AM
im 100% agree with you on this, buck need to get a better damage or atleast make the firerate faster. its really hard enough in this current condition for buck to kill squishies...

Silbergeist
09-28-2016, 07:32 AM
when I look to this champ I think, this is a tank, I don't think he needs a buff

I concur his kit isn't one of a damager, but even in sustaining he's lacking. He can't be a good bruiser against some character's, so he more than needs a buff to his sustain. And maybe be placed into a class of his own, like he was before, as a bruiser.

Egzodius
01-14-2017, 07:33 PM
buck needs a buff? looool make him instakill with all shots and increase hp to 89348578345638753459734587436534537845389534535398 74563458369589634653784598638534537846589347854385 63478563846534875638745394853748563456738465343495

Samwyse
01-14-2017, 07:37 PM
The last post before yours in this thread was made almost 4 months ago why did you feel it was necessary to bring it back again?

PTLagger
01-14-2017, 08:11 PM
buck needs a buff? looool make him instakill with all shots and increase hp to 89348578345638753459734587436534537845389534535398 74563458369589634653784598638534537846589347854385 63478563846534875638745394853748563456738465343495

Poor Buck haters just got mad when they see "Buck Buff". They raged and didn't care about the date when this thread was created 4 months ago and became dead thread

Egzodius
01-14-2017, 08:28 PM
Poor Buck haters just got mad when they see "Buck Buff". They raged and didn't care about the date when this thread was created 4 months ago and became dead thread

oh im sorry ... btw buck is my main and i know its op needs nerf ok check my stats.
5.01 KDA
527 / 152 / 469

needs nerf ok

Atilah
01-14-2017, 09:41 PM
buck needs a buff? looool make him instakill with all shots and increase hp to 89348578345638753459734587436534537845389534535398 74563458369589634653784598638534537846589347854385 63478563846534875638745394853748563456738465343495

I laughed Xdddd

ThatOthell159
01-14-2017, 09:57 PM
buck needs a buff? looool make him instakill with all shots and increase hp to 89348578345638753459734587436534537845389534535398 74563458369589634653784598638534537846589347854385 63478563846534875638745394853748563456738465343495

HU3HUAHEUHAUH3UH3UHAUHEUH3UH3UH3UH3UH

Found the Viktor main.

PTLagger
01-14-2017, 11:07 PM
oh im sorry ... btw buck is my main and i know its op needs nerf ok check my stats.
5.01 KDA
527 / 152 / 469

needs nerf ok

500 kills is just like 30+ Casual matches for me, which have no sense to consider he is OP
I could agree Buck is OP if you can handle him & dominate enemy team in 50+ lvl matches without dying a lot even 1v2 and they have Cauterize, and have his stats like me:
3.25 KDA
6,200 / 2,806 / 5,835
381 - 184 (67.43%)
95H 14M

BrandonB207
01-15-2017, 06:36 AM
Buck definitely does not need a buff. I don't think he's overpowred but I feel a buff like this would certainly make him over powered

PTLagger
01-15-2017, 08:53 AM
Buck definitely does not need a buff. I don't think he's overpowred but I feel a buff like this would certainly make him over powered

Yes he doesn't need a buff. This thread had been made since OB33, the time Hirez had just reworked Buck. At that time many people (and me) called him underpowered and unplayble. Only 1 buff for Buck was improved hitbox for his Shotgun, also buff Barik in OB34. But as the time went by, more and more people are understand how to play new Buck (and then they become many, so players who got rekted by Buck alone are calling for nerf him day by day). So people think he is balanced and didn't care about buff anymore, they let this thread become dead thread. But idk why someone necro this thread lol.

sinosleep
01-15-2017, 11:02 AM
Both "shotguns" in this game are the antithesis of what a shotgun is in basically every other game in the history of ever. Shotguns should absolutely destroy up close, they're balanced by being garbage at long range, having longer reload times, the increased danger of closing range, and a small number of shots before needing to reload.

Why both Buck and Barik decided to use bird shot in their guns so they have to shoot people 20 times to kill them is beyond me.

RattuS
01-15-2017, 02:11 PM
Actually we should talk about his reload speed. He already does less damage for being more tanky, but once you shot those 6 bullets, you basically have to retreat because it takes ages to reload. Especially against healers/healed enemies, you can easily run into "20% HP left, no more bullets", even with Cauterize II.

Katerzis
07-16-2017, 07:24 PM
up this non gaudy topic.

TheUndeadAmulet
07-17-2017, 04:20 AM
He got a damage buff, if you use the net legendary you can deal extremely high damage with one shot at close range. He needs a better type of reload, his current pump shots into his shotgun one at time is stupid for Hero Shooter. It just adds to the things you need to keep track of (Ability cooldowns, Objectives, etc) and means newer players don't play him because of it.

Valkure
07-17-2017, 04:22 AM
Other: he just needs to see the last nerf removed. Bring back his mobility.

AARPONG
07-17-2017, 04:53 AM
Other: I would like for his heroic leap to do at least a little damage again, like 100.
They should also increase the bounce house legendary damage to at least 600.

it's too stressfull to finish people off now. He really needs that extra damage to initiate or end fights without having to reload.

xPurplexx
07-17-2017, 10:26 AM
I feel like he needs a slight damage boost. I mean shotgun damage should go up to like 30 per pellet instead of 28. Pretty small, that's only 40 more damage on a non-critical shot at CQC. Also, give his Heroic Leap maybe 100 damage on impact, and buff Bounce House a little bit. Don't mean much at all, maybe to 500 damage instead of 450.

Buck is in a position right now where it's hard for him to compete with Androxus or Evie on the flank. He really does need a slight boost to his damage output to stand much of a chance in the meta where they're the only flankers who really get played too much in competitive play.