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BDra
09-16-2016, 11:29 AM
Edit: I've added a comment about Buck his reload and fixed some Layout mistakes. I'm currently adding bugs.

I'm looking for someone who knows a bit about video editing to find some of the few missing stats. Contact me in PM.

I haven't done one of these in a long time, but I've been giving my opinion on a lot of things, so I thought I would put most of it together in 1 thread.

These are findings after Patch 33 Hotfix 7.

Things that I liked a lot:

Kinessa her lowered Carbine damage, but not making her defenseless by adding the effect of her Oppressor Mines on the damage.
The new map.
Evil Mojo exploding on contact.
Viktor his damage reduction.
No more health drops.
Frequent Hotfixes, so I have to delete things from this list!



Needs to change:
Credits/Ultimate Charging:

Damage Champions have a clear advantage here and this shouldn't be.
Some more details about the Credit system would be nice and all bonuses explained.

Currently I put together this list and there seems to be a gap for healers:

A 1 Item at level 1 opponent: 30 Credits for a kill. It seems to be + 5 Credits per extra Item or Item level on the opponent.
A 1 Item at level 1 opponent: 25 Credits for an Assist.
Durable (=?Staying alive?): 20 Credits
Damage Dealer (=???): 20 Credits
Point Control: 4 Credits
Point Contesting: 4 Credits
Strong Defense (=???): 20 Credits
Push Payload: 2 Credits
Payload Contesting: 2 Credits



Champions:
Tanks/heals in general:
Bring back tanking based on Abilities, these meat shields aren't half as fun to play as they were before. I remember clearly months ago Drybear stating that they wanted to add more skill to the game and because of this tanks would rely more on their abilities and not their health pool. Why did you reverse this, or is this part of the oversimplification you're doing to paladins? Making paladins less skill based and tactical... because that's what good games are remembered for.

Also because of the change from skill/Abilities to big health pools we can't even test healing properly. These heals are making tanks to strong atm, but it could well be that they are OK in the non meat shield system we had before.

Androxus:

He shouldn't be able to fire every 0.5 seconds, make this 0.7 and most of his kit is almost balanced. (This one is so obvious that you seem to want him OP)
Like all other Champions that have this, give all cooldown reduction cards a prerequisite.
His Ultimate should have falloff on his AOE, all AOE should have it. (Well his ultimate shouldn't be an easy kill button. But as long as you like to add those without prerequisites like Kinessa has, at least make them a bit fair and add the suggestion I posted)
He has 5 big bugs:

Reload Item affects defiance. (http://forums.paladins.com/showthread.php?12101-Androxus-Defiance-Bug-Sometimes-shoots-in-sets-of-4-and-2)
Sometimes his Ultimate doesn't have an announce sound, even though the Androxus itself hears it. (http://forums.paladins.com/showthread.php?12219-Opposing-Androxus-his-Ult-didn-t-make-the-announcing-sound-(Video-inside))
Sometimes his weapon doesn't have a model/sound for everyone. (http://forums.paladins.com/showthread.php?12276-Androxus-weapon-invisible-to-everyone-in-the-game-Even-the-sound-was-not-there)
His Reversal covers his whole body and not just the front like it's supposed to.
His Reversal shoots its damage before the immunity is gone.



Evie:

Like all other Champions that have this, give all cooldown reduction cards a prerequisite. Of all Champions she is affected the most by this and she has way to much survivability because of it.
Because of the previous statement remove the "Over the Moon" Champion Card, she doesn't need 2 cooldown reduction cards on Soar.
Blink shouldn't give 4 seconds of bonus damage, change this to the first shot after Blink. (Bonus damage on Ice Block is fine because it's only versus marked targets)
She has 1 big bug:

Her Ultimate sometimes doesn't show for the opposing team. (http://forums.paladins.com/showthread.php?11829-Evie-Ultimate-not-visible-for-the-other-team-(Video-inside))



Cassie:

Bring back the cancelable disengage.


Drogoz:

Give him a meaningful Ultimate like you said you would. Or have you given up on that and are we going to have a second Grohk fiasco, where an Ultimate that should never have been in the game just keeps getting tweaked even after you said you would change it?
Give his Fire Spit damage when exploded mid air falloff (Like all AOE should have).


Ruckus:

Firstly he needs his reload time increased, this is something that should have been done ages ago.

On the new skill: you just made him even easier to play. I don't see why you have to force people on the Capture Point and making a Champion OP when he stands on it is 100% the wrong way to do it. Is it just that there should only be one way to play the game? It all points towards oversimplification of the game, less tactical battles and a less skill based game.

I'm now going to quote Suspensorio who gave a good and easy solution.


The way his new Q works, think of a team with Ruckus, Fernando, Barik, Grover and Ghrok, standing on the point. Ruckus can make everyone take 50% less damage every few seconds, and all are being healed a lot and have tons of HP and shields. What kind of team can move them from where they stand?

His Q should be the ultimate, on a big cooldown, and usable anywhere. Then you give him a rocket or grenade launcher for secondary attack, and put his normal shield on Q again, and done, you have a balanced, powerful, fun and consistent Ruckus.

This is pretty much how I think about it, currently it tries to force a playstyle on players by giving it an OP Ability in the situation Hi-Rez tries to force gameplay in. Another way they're removing tactical dept. The suggestion is actually pretty good. It removes his high damage Ultimate and gives him a more tactical Ultimate like Fernando and gives him a viable alternate fire.

Viktor:

Put a stamina bar on Hustle, you can even make it affect other abilities depending on how depleted it is.
His Compensator card should have its values reduced to 20/40/60/80. I know you don't need it to be good with him, but even I know that nonstop unzoomed headshots is wrong.
Say no to big damage Ultimates and yes to team based Ultimates, give him something like a Flashbang that blinds and Cripples.


Buck:

Please have a look at his reload, I know this was a first pass but adjustments are needed. It should be longer than normal but not this long. It should take 3 seconds maximum.
Fix the Crosshair bug that's been in the game for ages, the first game after you open your Client gives you a bigger Crosshair.


Grover:

He clearly needs a reload.


Ying:

Bring back old Ying (including her old weapon) and move the newly planned skillset to another Champion. You can call her Yang after Drybear his joke.


Burn Cards/Items:

Red Items are not in sync with the others their numbers, lower them!
Remove Morale Boost, this card alone has done more harm than most of the bugs this game has had when you look at balancing.
You should be able to sell them again.


Loadouts:

Bring back Loadout switching.
Give us more Cards per Champion!
Stop putting in direct cooldown reduction cards, give them prerequisites.


Maps:

The same Capture Point over and over again during the game is bad, it makes the game boring.
Give the map before the Champion select, so that we can chose accordingly.



Personal changes I'd like to see:

There should be an option where you can put the maximum allowed Ping, so it doesn't place you on a server where your Ping is so high that you can't play.
Champions finally balanced, you can scroll up for some suggestions.
Bug fixes, and Hi-Rez telling us what they've fixed. Come on guys, step it up and get some decent communication going so that bugs don't stay in the game 5+ patches.
Champion balance. (Not a silly reply that says: "looking at the overall win/loss per Champion things are balanced", because that is just useless data.)
All AOE damage should have falloff.
Give the map before the Champion select.
Personalized Ultimate formulas per Champion and find a combination of damage/healing/shielding for each one to charge it. Currently it's really unfair.
No more high damage Ultimates (with the exception of Kinessa/Skye the first actually has a good prerequisite so she doesn't always get it and the second has a timer and can't be moved) and give us more team orientated Ultimates. (like Cassie, Fernando, Evie, Pip)
Burn Cards/Items should have both a positive and negative effect. (This is an idea I saw somewhere else some time ago, the examples are my own.)

For example:

Blast Shields: Take less damage from AOE and more from direct hits.
Haven: Take less damage from direct hits and more from AOE.
Illuminate: Increase the range at which you see nearby stealthed targets, but also increase the damage you get from them.
Resilience: Reduce the duration of Crowd Control and the impulse of Knockbacks on yourself, but also reduce the effects of these you cause.
Kill to Heal/Life Rip/Rejuvenate(the new one): Their effects, but also heal less Out of Combat
Veteran: Their effects, but also a longer time to get Out of Combat.
Morale Boost: Remove this abomination from the game.
Nimble: You gain movement speed, but the cooldown of your abilities is increased.
Chronos: Reduce the cooldown of all your abilities and lower your movement speed
Master Riding: Gain increased mount speed, but also take more damage while mounted and 5 seconds after demounting.
Bulldozer: Your weapon shots deal damage to deployables, but less versus players and shields.
Cauterize: Your Weapon shots reduce the effect of healing on your target, but you receive less healing.
Deft Hands: Increase your Reload Speed, but you take more damage while reloading.
Wrecker: Your weapon attacks deal increased damage to shields, but less versus deployables and players.
Aggression: Gain increased weapon damage versus players, but less versus deployables and shields.


I'd like to see the numbers of the Red Items brought in line to the level of the other Items and the numbers of Items in general halved.
A change to most reload speeds, look at the stats section below.
Bring back the original Capture and Siege as a game mode, but I understand that you want to finalize Siege first, so this isn't a priority.
Showing shields on the Health Bar (different color for ability shields and shields gained trough Champion Cards).
A better Credits system: the current kill/assist system doesn't make sense. Credits should be based on % of the total damage done + a small bonus for final blow. And maybe a way for low damage Champions to gain them besides Objectives.
You can't win with just 1 point difference, the game ends in a draw at 7-7 (you can still win 6-8). This will make good and balanced games more epic, but games where the skill difference is to big will still be short.
A removal of all the comeback mechanisms, it's not because certain other games use a completely flawed system that you should to.
A decent Mouse Sensitivity system.

Allow decimals in Mouse Sensitivity.
FoV no longer influencing the Mouse Sensitivity (this is the standard for any respectable shooter)
A separate Zoom Sensitivity system. FoV changing the Mouse Sensitivity is how current Zoom Sensitivity is calculated, so basically this and the previous are part of the same problem.

Instant access to the Shooting Range, not this long unnecessary wait.
A big warning at the beginning of Shooting Range saying that the hitboxes on the bots in there are bigger than the model and that people shouldn't use anything that happens there for a bug report.



Stats:
I'm looking for these Champion stats: (quick list, I might add more)

Reload speed. (trying to figure this one out myself but I have limited equipment, so they could be wrong)

Below are provisional numbers not including Overheating systems

Barik: 1.3s
Ruckus: 1.5s
Makoa: 1.3s
Androxus: 1.5s (I almost didn't take out my reload card, checked it multiped times)
Evie: Not sure, video editor acts up. I'm looking for help
Buck:

First bullet: Not sure, video editor acts up. I'm looking for help.
Full reload: 4.9s
Bullet 2-6 (Single): I can't calculate it without the correct number for the first bullet.


Skye: 1.3s
Bomb King: 1.5s
Cassie: 1s
Drogoz: 1.8s
Kinessa: 2.2s
Viktor: 1.5s
Grover: No reload!
Pip: 1.5s

This leads me to believe that the reload system is seriously lacking in dept and there is almost no difference between time between shots and the reload. At the end of this post I'll put a suggestion for how to improve it.

Projectile speed.
Falloff distance.
Projectile size.
Spread.




Stats we already have or that can be calculated with other stats we received:

Attack speed. <= This pause also applies after the last bullet before the reload starts.

Ruckus: 0.04s
Barik:

Weapon: 1s
Turret: 1s

Makoa: 1s
Androxus: 0.5s
Evie: 1s
Buck: 0.9s
Skye: 0.1s
Bomb King:
Throw: 0.6s
Explosion delay: 0.3s
Cassie: 0.75s
Drogoz: 0.85s
Kinessa:

Carbine: 0.15s
Full charge: 1.2s

Viktor: 0.1s
Grover: / I can't check a theory because my video editing equipment isn't good enough.
Pip: 1s

Damage without Bonus.

Ruckus: 53
Barik:

Weapon: 600 (max)
Turret: 150

Makoa: 600
Androxus: 650
Evie: 930
Buck: 550 (max)
Skye: 150
Bomb King: 900 (+10 if on target)
Cassie: 700
Drogoz: 950
Kinessa:

Carbine: 150
Full charge: 1300

Viktor: 130
Grover: 300/600/700/1200 (300 is point blank damage, 600 is the highest damage that isn't counted as bonus damage, 700 is thrown from the distance I play Grover and 1200 is the highest damage)
Pip: 600

Ammo count.

Ruckus: 200
Barik: 8
Makoa: 4
Androxus: 6
Evie: 6
Buck: 6
Skye: 15
Bomb King: 6
Cassie: 6
Drogoz: 6
Kinessa:

Carbine: 20
Full charge: 5

Viktor: 25
Grover: Unlimited (<= What?)
Pip: 6

Shooting duration of 1 clip.

Ruckus: 8s
Barik: 8s
Makoa: 4s
Androxus: 3s
Evie: 6s
Buck: 5.4s
Skye: 1.5s
Bomb King: /
Cassie: 4.5s
Drogoz: 5.1s
Kinessa:

Carbine: 3s
Full charge: /

Viktor: 2.5s
Grover: /
Pip: 6s

DPS (during 1 clip)

Ruckus: 1325 /s
Barik:

Weapon: 600 /s (max)
Turret: 150 /s

Makoa: 600 /s
Androxus: 1300 /s
Evie: 930 /s
Buck: 611 /s (max)
Skye: 1500 /s
Bomb King:

Single Sticky Bomb on target, 1 detonation: 1000 /s
Two Sticky Bombs on target, 1 detonation: (1200 + 180) /s = 1380 /s (it's impossible to hit 2 without the bonus damage, so it has to be calculated)
Three Sticky Bombs on target, 1 detonation: (1285.7 + 385.7) /s = 1671 /s (it's impossible to hit 3 without the bonus damage, so it has to be calculated)

Cassie: 933 /s
Drogoz: 1118 /s
Kinessa:

Carbine: 1000 /s
Full charge: 1083 /s

Viktor: 1300 /s
Grover: Some help needed.
Pip: 600 /s

Damage per clip. <= Logically reload speed should be based on this and to a lesser extent DPS, but it doesn't seem to be.

Ruckus: 10600 <= Should have a really long reload, this is not the case.
Barik: 4800 (max)
Makoa: 2400
Androxus: 3900
Evie: 5580
Buck: 3300 (max)
Skye: 2250
Bomb King: 5400 (Single detonations used, it seemed the fairest)
Cassie: 4200
Drogoz: 5700
Kinessa:

Carbine: 3000
Full charge: 6500

Viktor: 3250
Grover: /
Pip: 3600



How I'd do reloads:
Start at 1.25s, add 0.25s for each point they have in the following 2 categories.

DPS:

+0: <700 /s
+1: 700-1200 /s
+2 >1200 /s

Damage per Clip:

+0: <3000
+1: 3000-5400
+2: 5401-8000
+3: >8000

Results:

Ruckus: 1.25s + 5*0.25s = 2.5s
Barik: 1.25s + 1*0.25s = 1.5s
Makoa: 1.25s + 0*0.25s = 1.25s
Androxus: 1.25s +-3*0.25s = 2.0s
Evie: 1.25s + 3*0.25s = 2.0s
Buck: I would give his special reload system a total reload time of the max + 0.5s, that would be 3.0s
Skye: 1.25s + 2*0.25s = 1.75s
Bomb King: 1.25s + 2*0.25s = 1.75s (Single detonations used, it seemed the fairest)
Cassie: 1.25s + 2*0.25s = 1.75s
Drogoz: 1.25s + 3*0.25s = 2.0s
Kinessa: 1.25s + 3*0.25s = 2.0s (I used the full charge data, it seemed the fairest)
Viktor: 1.25s + 3*0.25s = 2.0s
Grover: I really hope he gets a reload, this is just silly.
Pip: 1.25s + 1*0.25s = 1.5s

UngryNab
09-16-2016, 01:37 PM
Nice and articulate thoughts and I agree with the vast majority of them. Better make a copy in a text document on your PC, in case these go 'unexpectantly' down the drain again... [/qqoff]

KicksBrickster
09-16-2016, 01:50 PM
I think you raised a good suggestion with Ying. It might be cool to have Yang be her brother or younger sister or something lore-wise, with just a little adjustment to that kit.

BDra
09-16-2016, 01:58 PM
I'm still looking for someone to check the reload stats I gathered and to help me find the few I didn't get because my video editing software acted up.

ZionPulse
09-16-2016, 01:58 PM
+1 TL;DR take some rep

UngryNab
09-16-2016, 02:11 PM
Cassie:
Bring back the cancelable disengage.

Loadouts:
Stop putting in direct cooldown reduction cards, give them prerequisites.


Cassies change is the only thing I disagree with you. Why you prefer the old model?

On the loadout cards, could you give some examples? Or something like Cassie's roll reduction/Drogoz fire spit cards?

Also didn't they change Bomb Kings bonus damage to work on the third bomb instead of the second? I haven't played him for very long, I could be wrong. UPDATE, actually the base damage per bomb is 900 (the stats card still says 1000) and the bonus does apply after 2nd bomb!

BDra
09-16-2016, 02:16 PM
Cassies change is the only thing I disagree with you. Why you prefer the old model?

On the loadout cards, could you give some examples? Or something like Cassies roll recuction/Drogoz sfire spit cards?

About disengage: it allowed for a bit more control, but I should have written that in the section with my personal preferences. If I remember correctly (and it can be that I don't), it also consumed an arrow so it was a bit fairer, like Andruxus his alt-fire also consumes ammo.

And yes, those are good examples of cards that have them.

Suspensorio
09-16-2016, 02:34 PM
I'm now going to quote Suspensorio who gave a good and easy solution.


Thanks :D

I agree to every point, but one:

Evie needs a total rework. She looks like a cheated character built by a 12-year-old (no offense to whoever designed her). Her kit makes no sense, she has two movement skills, one completely imobile skill, and she can blink (?) while inside an ice cube. All she does, all her playstyle, is shoot slow moving AOE balls that also slow. She needs a fun kit, cool skills that match what she is supposed to be, and make for fun and consistent play (look at Grohk, or Bomb King, or Buck). Heck, look at LoL's recent champion reworks, to see the difference between poor kit and great kit.

BDra
09-16-2016, 06:30 PM
Btw, it would be nice if someone who knows a bit about video editing could help me with those last few numbers I'm missing or if a mod could just tell me.

Kushina
09-16-2016, 06:37 PM
any genral idea when ying is coming back </3

BDra
09-16-2016, 06:40 PM
any genral idea when ying is coming back </3

Next patch, but we don't know in what state.

Raloris
09-17-2016, 10:46 PM
Ruckus' damage per clip isn't so bad when you consider the massive spread it has on it after the first few shots, so you'd need to literally be in melee range with him to take all those shots. I played mostly Ruckus before the Advance change but my client stopped working between then and CB33, but I really can't stand his new Q and would definitely prefer having a charge based missile launcher for his RMB and swapping the current Q to his ultimate. I mostly just use the current ultimate for the removal of his shot spread to help clear the payload.

Honestly, what were they thinking putting Aggression into the game? In what world can you justify giving people a flat damage boost like that? Especially when you have Cassie, Kinessa, Androxus, and Skye running around. Even Call of Duty learned that this was a stupid idea after MW2, and yet Hi-Rez just completely ignored that other games tried this sort of shenanigans and failed.

BDra
09-18-2016, 04:05 AM
Ruckus' damage per clip isn't so bad when you consider the massive spread it has on it after the first few shots, so you'd need to literally be in melee range with him to take all those shots. I played mostly Ruckus before the Advance change but my client stopped working between then and CB33, but I really can't stand his new Q and would definitely prefer having a charge based missile launcher for his RMB and swapping the current Q to his ultimate. I mostly just use the current ultimate for the removal of his shot spread to help clear the payload.

Honestly, what were they thinking putting Aggression into the game? In what world can you justify giving people a flat damage boost like that? Especially when you have Cassie, Kinessa, Androxus, and Skye running around. Even Call of Duty learned that this was a stupid idea after MW2, and yet Hi-Rez just completely ignored that other games tried this sort of shenanigans and failed.

Spread doesn't justify it, Both Barik/Buck have worse Spread and have more falloff. They don't have increased ammo clips, using an increased ammo clip should always result in having a longer reload.

To be honest, a 30% damage reduction is just as insane, that should be 15% max. 150% wrecker is even more stupid, that card should go 10-20-30%. But HiRez never balanced these Items, they just put higher numbers on Items that deal with things that might annoy new players.

costanata00
01-21-2017, 07:33 PM
things thing things